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2016/10/27 00:51:55
Subject: Playing Chaos Daemons (for 40k and 30k) but without Daemon spamming : Is it possible and viable ?
Hi people ! So I'm considering expanding my collection of Daemons for 40k (I played KDK) and 30k (I play Word Bearers). I was wondering what I should get, so I checked the internet to have an idea of what were popular CD lists, and I saw that most of them were all about Psyker and Summoning spam. Are there other good (and less costly (money-wise)) ways of playing Chaos Daemons ?
I already have a Daemon Prince, 20 flesh hounds, 20 Bloodletters, 6 Bloodcrushers and 10 Plaguebearers, so I'm wondering if I should go poly-gods, mono-god, and what unit to use.
What are your thoughts on the subject ?
2016/10/27 06:01:04
Subject: Re:Playing Chaos Daemons (for 40k and 30k) but without Daemon spamming : Is it possible and viable ?
Welcome to Daemons! I wouldn't be overly concerned about summoning spam. For the most part its not really a viable way to play a strong Daemons list. It is however a useful tool.
The real bread and butter of playing a strong Daemons list is using Rewards and Psychic powers to buff already good units into nigh unkillable wrecking machines. There's an inherent randomness to this (you have to roll for powers andvl rewards every game) but I like that as it keeps it interesting. To do it well however, you need some sort of inherent redundancy to make it more likely to get the stuff you need. That generally means multiple heralds with max psychic levels in a strong unit. Fateweaver is a near auto include in many lists because of his once per turn reroll of any dice and his warlord trait (reroll warpstorm results)
The two most popular examples of this are Screamer Star and Drone Star. Two to three Heralds of Tzeentch/Nurgle in a large unit of Screamers/Plague Drones respectively. Screamer Star is faster and more durable (thanks to a 2++ rerollable save and jetbikes movement) and does psychic shooting and buffing slightly better while the Drone Star packs a much more formidable punch in close combat. Both units are good in their own right and are not mutually exclusive to being in the same list.
Another style of Daemons that has come back in vogue since the release of the Infernal Tetrad is the Flying Circus. Generally some thing along the lines of 4-5 Flying Monstrous Creatures all buffed to the gills with Greater Rewards and Psychic Mastery levels. The Tetrad itself consists of 4 Daemon Princes, one devoted to each God. They get cumulative bonuses depending how many are alive and still on the table, the most important of which being +1 toughness while all 4 are on the table.
"Backfield? I have no backfield."
2016/10/31 12:34:28
Subject: Playing Chaos Daemons (for 40k and 30k) but without Daemon spamming : Is it possible and viable ?
Warzoner wrote: Hi people ! So I'm considering expanding my collection of Daemons for 40k (I played KDK) and 30k (I play Word Bearers). I was wondering what I should get, so I checked the internet to have an idea of what were popular CD lists, and I saw that most of them were all about Psyker and Summoning spam. Are there other good (and less costly (money-wise)) ways of playing Chaos Daemons ?
I already have a Daemon Prince, 20 flesh hounds, 20 Bloodletters, 6 Bloodcrushers and 10 Plaguebearers, so I'm wondering if I should go poly-gods, mono-god, and what unit to use.
What are your thoughts on the subject ?
Generally-speaking, you don't need to spam summoning to win. It's actually not even exceptionally good. "Spamming" packers is a decent tactic, but for example my deamons list has 5. It might sound like a lot but i have 2 nurgle heralds, 2 tzeentch heralds on discs and fate weaver. It's actually pretty cheap to do things like that because they're like 150 point psykers or so for pretty cheap (money-wise). And of course Fatey is a 300 point dude for not too much money.
Having a psyker-heavy army is good because it allows you to buff your units and make them better than they were before, which is one of the strengths of daemons. They don't have guns, so you sort of have to buff them to be durable enough to make it to assault.
You can do mono-god or multi-god to pretty much equal effect. You just want to make sure that each unit in your army has a purpose and is able to be durable somehow. Want to run a giant unit of plague drones? Throw a herald in, give him the FNP icon and roll twice hoping for endurance.
Want to run with a squad of juggernauts? Go to town. Just grim those dudes and give them cursed earth. Auto 2++ if you can cast (btw fate weaver is so clutch with his re-roll on the grim).
Feeling some screamers? Those tzeentch heralds are great, giving them grim potentially (3++ re-rolling ones is great) and divination is a hugely underrated tree. Re-rolling your to hits in combat is amazing when a lot of your guys are hitting on 4 (and re-rolling 3+ to hit is almost like 90% success rate).
The list goes on. Generally, the daemons without some sort of support are good but not great. They're still viable, but I think it's a good idea to have at least 1 or 2 really strong units that are the hammer in your army.
2016/11/01 02:59:12
Subject: Re:Playing Chaos Daemons (for 40k and 30k) but without Daemon spamming : Is it possible and viable ?
Warzoner wrote: I've heard that the LoC and Fateweavers models were extremely fragile. Do people really use them ?
Like the model physically breaking?
I hate and refuse to use finest for that reason. I am a big advocate of conversions for those two dudes for that specific reason. I mean, it's the Lord of CHANGE. He appears however he wants to!
Plus, if that Magnus that seems to be coming out isn't a baller Fateweaver conversion, I don't know what is.
As far as in game durability, Fateweaver doesn't have as many issues. His benefits only require him to be on the board for the psychic phase, so he only needs to be on the table during your opponent's shooting phase for half the game, making him an excellent warlord choice (and of course his fixed warlord trait is amazing)
The Lord of Change is a little better, and TBH their +2 str staff is a really good value for a bunch of str 8 AP 2 attacks.
Plus, always remember that being a Daemon of tzeentch makes durability so much better, especially since the re-rolls of 1's apply to cover saves, jink, etc. So they're never taking worse than a 4++ re-rolling 1's if you need to.
2016/11/01 12:14:37
Subject: Playing Chaos Daemons (for 40k and 30k) but without Daemon spamming : Is it possible and viable ?
Tetrad + Tallyband has become my go-to for Daemons, but in the past I have done really, REALLY well with the following units:
LoC Belakor 18+ model unit of Deamonettes Pink Horrors & Nurglings as minimum troops 18+ Flesh Hounds 2x 5 Screamers 2 Slaanesh SoulGrinders w/ baleful torrent.
The idea is to create a fast moving, psychically supported rush of units that can be at the opponents deployment line on turn 1. Belakor casts Invis on the Hounds, and cast Shrounded. The Screamers & LoC (who should be gliding) stick near Belakor (who should be flying) for a sweet 2+ re-rollable Jink. The Soulgrinders deal with flyers if needed, but mostly run up to support the Hounds/Screamers. I generally try to Summon 1 Plague Drone unit as a distraction.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/11/01 12:15:02
Galef wrote: Tetrad + Tallyband has become my go-to for Daemons, but in the past I have done really, REALLY well with the following units:
LoC Belakor
18+ model unit of Deamonettes
Pink Horrors & Nurglings as minimum troops
18+ Flesh Hounds
2x 5 Screamers
2 Slaanesh SoulGrinders w/ baleful torrent.
The idea is to create a fast moving, psychically supported rush of units that can be at the opponents deployment line on turn 1. Belakor casts Invis on the Hounds, and cast Shrounded. The Screamers & LoC (who should be gliding) stick near Belakor (who should be flying) for a sweet 2+ re-rollable Jink.
The Soulgrinders deal with flyers if needed, but mostly run up to support the Hounds/Screamers.
I generally try to Summon 1 Plague Drone unit as a distraction.
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If your going to take 2 soul grinders go all out and take the forgehost, you wont regret it
2016/11/01 13:56:21
Subject: Playing Chaos Daemons (for 40k and 30k) but without Daemon spamming : Is it possible and viable ?
Galef wrote: Tetrad + Tallyband has become my go-to for Daemons, but in the past I have done really, REALLY well with the following units:
LoC Belakor
18+ model unit of Deamonettes
Pink Horrors & Nurglings as minimum troops
18+ Flesh Hounds
2x 5 Screamers
2 Slaanesh SoulGrinders w/ baleful torrent.
The idea is to create a fast moving, psychically supported rush of units that can be at the opponents deployment line on turn 1. Belakor casts Invis on the Hounds, and cast Shrounded. The Screamers & LoC (who should be gliding) stick near Belakor (who should be flying) for a sweet 2+ re-rollable Jink.
The Soulgrinders deal with flyers if needed, but mostly run up to support the Hounds/Screamers.
I generally try to Summon 1 Plague Drone unit as a distraction.
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If your going to take 2 soul grinders go all out and take the forgehost, you wont regret it
Agreed, but I was using 2 SGs before the formation was available, so that was where my suggestion was coming from. I don't have the points available for a 3rd, so I don't use either anymore.
