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Greetings all! New to the community and n00b to the game so bear with me. I'm looking for suggestions for a KDK 500-750pt starting army to learn the basics with. Also have a couple friends getting into it as well that are also working on 500ish pt armies so we can all get going with it and get the basics down.

I have the KDK codex and have the following models so far...

- Chaos Terminator Lord
- 12 Khorne Berzerkers (11 troop / 1 asp champ)

Mainly grabbed them to get back into the modeling aspect and fill out some basics. I have no problem with shelving them for now if needed for other more effective models. I am figuring the Chaos Lord may have a place in a small 500pt army but the Zerkers are high priced for a low point army unless I'm going against a melee based opponent.

What are some ideas for 500-750 pt builds? Something with a mostly expendable stuff to generate blood tithe? Or more a mix of a few heavy hitters and some expendables?

Also, one of my friends is currently building an Eldar (ugh) army as well.
His potential list is...
- 1 Farseer Windrunner
- 2 units of Windriders (3x2)
- 2 units Warpspiders with Exarch in each (5x2)

So I'm thinking something like Chaos Lord, Chaos Bikers, Bloodletters?

Any ideas or suggestions for in general and also to deal with that Eldar build? Thanks in advance for any and all info. Much appreciated.

Bikers are a good idea, bloodletters too. I find bikers are fast enough to be where they need to be and just sufficient enough in CC to sweep weak units after the first turn. (Guard, tau)

Bloodletters are cheap and surprisingly nasty in CC with cheap AP 3 and a 5+ inv.

A chaos lord on juggernaut is a must IMO. While I prefer the CSM codex version because of the AOBF, you can make a pretty good one in KDK too. (It will be expensive)

I would also recommend some normal CSM troops as objective grabbers and some shooting power.

As a list, for 500 points you can either decide to use a CAD or work towards building the slaughtercult, which is amazing BTW, so I would recommend that.

My list would be: (disregarding model cost, I know it costs an arm and a leg for a juggerlord)

HQ

Chaos lord on juggernaut, armour of blood, axe of khorne.

Troops

2x10 bloodletters

Fast Attack

3 bikers, melta gun, combi melta.

I don't have my book on me, but that should be close to 500 points.

While the chaos lord makes this list low model count, it will pay off once your collection grows and he'll probably see play in every game in higher points levels.

From this list and expanding, I would get a unit of possessed, a maulerfiend, and the formation of bikers and fleshounds. (I use Fantasy warhounds because you get 10 for cheaper than 5 actual fleshounds, and they look better IMO) This will make your slaughter cult and will be a fairly competitive build. Sprinkle in any other units you want.

As for the Eldar, that looks like a pretty cheesy build right off the bat and it's going to be nearly impossible for you to catch him in CC because he can turbo boost or flickerjump across the board. And all while outrunning you, he will be blowing you away with scatterlasers. You're in an uphill battle, but once you do catch him he's dead meat. There is no real counter to this as KDK, so it will have to come down to your skill, the dice, the mission, and the board. (Mostly the dice )

Thanks for the input and ideas Shield. Good call on the Chaos Lord on Jugger. Just looked up the Lord on Jugger and the model looks awesome. I'll end up using the Lord I've currently got and just state he's on Jugger till I can grab the actual model of him on it. Was def planning on grabbing some CSM as well since the Zerkers cost so much. Prob not a problem in bigger armies but smaller and starting out they def chew up a bunch of points quickly.

Definitely going to work towards the Slaughtercult as well. Will actually be well on my way towards it when I grab a few more model sets.

Looks like the list you mentioned comes in right around 538 pts without Blood Armor or equiping the Bikers.

- Chaos Lord 75 pts
- Juggernaut 45 pts
- Axe of Khorn 30 pts

Is Armour of Blood same as Blood Forged? That's another 50 pts. So looking at 200 pts just for the lord.

- Bloodletters x2 (2 x 80 pts) 160 pts
- Bikers x 3 no gear (3 x 76 pts) 228 pts

Granted that's all doable and my friend and I can just raise the cap to 600 or whatnot. Just putting the numbers up that are showing in the KDK codex.

Question about the Axe of Khorne, I've read about using the Axe of Ruin for the Bloodthirster spawn if the HQ dies. I don't see it listed in the KDK though. Is that a CSM only weapon type deal?

Speaking of Bloodthirsters, is there a minimum game point limit before a BT can be used? As in the 8 Blood Tithe talent "Fury Unbound". Or would they be better spent for something like Demon Tide (8 letters or 5 hounds spawn)? Obviously it would all be situational to a certain extent as well.

Thanks again for the help and info! >

 Thanum wrote:
Thanks for the input and ideas Shield. Good call on the Chaos Lord on Jugger. Just looked up the Lord on Jugger and the model looks awesome. I'll end up using the Lord I've currently got and just state he's on Jugger till I can grab the actual model of him on it. Was def planning on grabbing some CSM as well since the Zerkers cost so much. Prob not a problem in bigger armies but smaller and starting out they def chew up a bunch of points quickly.

Definitely going to work towards the Slaughtercult as well. Will actually be well on my way towards it when I grab a few more model sets.

Looks like the list you mentioned comes in right around 538 pts without Blood Armor or equiping the Bikers.

- Chaos Lord 75 pts
- Juggernaut 45 pts
- Axe of Khorn 30 pts

Is Armour of Blood same as Blood Forged? That's another 50 pts. So looking at 200 pts just for the lord.

- Bloodletters x2 (2 x 80 pts) 160 pts
- Bikers x 3 no gear (3 x 76 pts) 228 pts

Granted that's all doable and my friend and I can just raise the cap to 600 or whatnot. Just putting the numbers up that are showing in the KDK codex.

Question about the Axe of Khorne, I've read about using the Axe of Ruin for the Bloodthirster spawn if the HQ dies. I don't see it listed in the KDK though. Is that a CSM only weapon type deal?

Speaking of Bloodthirsters, is there a minimum game point limit before a BT can be used? As in the 8 Blood Tithe talent "Fury Unbound". Or would they be better spent for something like Demon Tide (8 letters or 5 hounds spawn)? Obviously it would all be situational to a certain extent as well.

Thanks again for the help and info! >

Yeah sorry, I meant armour of blood. The one that gives you FNP. The axe of ruin is a relic, so if you're looking in the melee section you won't find it. (Would recommend taking this once you have a Blood Thirster model, it's pretty deadly)

A Bloodthirster can be used regardless of points, but since it's low points there probably won't be many units to get BT from, but it's doable. I find Blood Thirsters that get summoned are distractions more than anything, and will usually get focused fired down in a couple of turns. (albeit buying time for the rest of my army) And if it does get into combat, it will be worth the BT.

Pretty much like you said it depends on the situation what you'll be spending your BT on. Wit the slaughtercult I pretty much always summon a unit, and then use the FNP boon.

Gottcha. I just checked and did find the Axe of Ruin in the relic section.

As I was reading on the war gear list under Artifacts of Slaughter It reads...
"Only one of each Artifact of Slaughter may be taken per army. A model may take one of the following... Brazen Rune, Skull helm, Blood armor." Then below that reads...
"A model may instead replace one weapon with one of the following... Goredrinker, Endless Bloodshed, Axe of Ruin."

So is a model allowed to take one of each? Armor/weapon? Or only one total from all listed in the artifact section? The key words as to why I ask are "A model may instead replace..."

Understood about the Thirster. It does seam they are bullet magnets but a good distraction. As you mentioned, prob won't see a lot of use in lower point games but more so in higher. I can see using Tithe 3 (FNP) and 5 (8 letters or 5 hounds) being used most for now probably.

Hi Thanum. I'm no pro either, so take this with a grain of salt. Against a shooty army like Tau, you need to be able to get into assault quickly and you need expendable units to soak up overwatch. One tactic is to assault with a sacrificial unit and watch them get eaten in overwatch, then assault with a stronger unit behind it.

So, hard-hitting and fast units for KDK include Flesh Hounds (my favorite), bikes, spawn, and bloodcrushers (expensive). A lot of people run the Gorepack (2-4 Biker squads, 1-4 Flesh Hound packs) because it gets such wonderful bonuses. You can add a Chaos Lord on a bike or juggernaut to run with such units.

Bloodletters with a banner are scary (AP3) and because they have an 5+ invul instead of a armor save are great for going after low AP units (so they waste their low AP on your bloodletters instead of something with armor values) and they have a minimum 7" charge.

I've been a KDK player for awhile, and Ill tell you the Secret to low points games.... Spawn and Flesh Hounds. A Juggerlord is too expensive at 500, so here's a suggestion:

Lord with Kor'Lath
2x Cultist
10x Flesh Hounds
2x1 Spawn

You should have a little left over for something.

Mount your hounds on the 50mm bases so you have a solid Scout move. Let your Lord tank the wounds if you can. If he dies, you get a free Bloodthirster on a countdown that the Eldar MUST deal with or he'll get diced. If he's running he can't shoot you. If he's in melee he can't shoot you, so get there now!

You will need a Bloodthirster model in reserve. Also, I would suggest Bloodletters, at least 20, they will be useful when you break out of 500pts.

If you have any questions about a KDK, Ill be happy to answer!

Looking at your opponents' list, it's probably going to be a struggle. You'll need some decent mobility, so the flesh hounds and lord with Kor'Lath are going to be invaluable. If you can get at least 1-2 summons in (go for more hounds or bloodcrushers), it'll go a long way.

Yeah, a Lord with Jugger, Blood Armor and Korlath is around 250pts. I've got about 5-6 different configurations in general I'm gonna be trying out to see if any work better then the others.

Models I actually own are a Chaos Lord, 10 Bloodletters, 20 hounds, and 12 Berzerkers w/ rhino. However, this is just going to be at a friends house so will end up mixing up and using some models as different things to try out. Like some of the hounds will be marked and used as "bikers" , Godzilla model for a Thirster if needed, Zerkers as reg CSM or whatever is needed, etc. Then will concentrate on buying the models that seam to work better.

I am kind of reserved about using too many hounds against jet bikes as the hounds have 0 ballistic skill and won't be shooting? They would probably shred his Warp spiders though.

I've seen and heard a few mention Chaos Spawn, do they really wreck house that good? The kinda worry me against an army of flyers sicne they have a 0 BS as well. Like the hounds.

Mainly I am thinking do to him having such mobility with the jet bikes I'm gonna kind of spread a bit so that no matter where he tries to run to he runs into something of mine and has to engage. We'll see how that works.

It's mainly gonna be a n00b game for both of us to go through the paces and learn the game play while experimenting with diff formations.

Definitely invest in bikers and hounds. Spawn are mostly good as throw away blood tithe earners or objective stealers that can occasionally tie up or even kill small shooter units, but they aren't a game changer or anything like that. I'd say get them eventually, but start with the other two. You want to be able to make a gorepack asap, it's the Daemonkin's best formation, imho.

As for flyers, you can usually get away with just ignoring them and going for objectives with your hounds, spawn and letters. If your opponent goes heavy on flyers, they won't have much on the ground to stop you (especially at low point games like 500-600 points). If you wanted to, you could bring along a Heldrake or two and vector strike your opponent's flyers, but I would rather spend my fast attack slots on hounds and bikes and ignore the skies.

The only other units that can really fight flyers are daemon princes, bloodthirsters and Havocs with missile launchers, but those options are either better used elsewhere or too costly for what they give you. You can try using forgefiends, but again I'd rather take Maulerfiends and dominate the ground game...

Yeah, I've been looking for bikers at the local shop the past week or so but been sold out. Just ordered a couple kits Friday and bought the 2 boxes of Chaos Warhounds. As mentioned above by ShieldBrother, I too am using the older models. I like the look more and get 10 for 25 USD. Gorepack is def the first priority.

Are the Eldar jetbikes considered flyers? Or ground with transport? Or am I just getting thrown off due to their name? As in, can they be hit by melee as well or only by being shot at?

Oh, jetbikes are not flyers. They can be charged or charge into melee combat, and can be shot regularly. I misread one of your posts.

They are really mobile, though, so the trick is catching them. You might want to have several small packs of hounds spread out to cover the table and pin then down long enough for other units to charge them, but most jetbikes are terrible in close combat so you might not need to wait for backup.