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'EY!... WHEEERE'S DA GIT THAT MADE DIS FING SO I CAN MASH 'IM!

So I have not attempted utilizing trukks until recently and it's sort of depressing. The game I just played (and maybe this was a bad idea anyway) I had 2 trukks of Tankbustas I was going to rush into assault with some stuff that needed blowin' up (haven't really gotten to test out their melta bombs). Other player went first (who was also playing orks btw) and both my trukks were dead before they even moved. People talk about using them but I can't really imagine them being useful unless you go first and then ditch bail ASAP. What do you guys think?

I'm feeling sort of bummed about my orks right now. My collection is pretty big, and I added a bunch knowing that they are considered one of the weaker armies. Are there certain things that are just absolute no-no's with orks or certain points that give a large boost to their playability?

Also... While I'm posting I may as well ask: What exactly are the rules when a vehicle runs out of hull points? When does/doesn't it blow up? What happens when it blows up? is it that S4 AP- hit / guy in the transport deal? What about when it's not a transport? Does said explosion damage anything near it?

Thanks!!

Its all in the BRB under the vehicle section but basically vehicles explode when they take a penetrating hit and an explode result is rolled on the damage table. The AP of the weapon as well as being open topped or not has an impact as to modifying the damage table result. If its HP drops to 0 then it just wrecks and becomes basically terrain so everything inside the vehicle has to exit it. Vehicle explosions (from non super heavies) are just S4 AP- and the distance is D6 inches from the hull and of course hits everybody inside the transport.

As for using Trukks it mainly comes down to quantity to make up for quality. They will explode a lot, they will become piles of scrap quickly, but the devil is in trying to gun down 10 of the things. Personally I tend to just transport Meganobz in them because MANz just laugh at the explosion and Trukks are zoggin fast (Meganobz in a Trukk is often referred to as a MANz Missile as the Trukk goes flying towards the enemy and tends to then explode unloading the very deadly Meganobz at the enemy's doorstep). Line of Sight blocking terrain helps a lot as you can keep a Trukk behind a wall then zip around the corner and flat out down the field to close the distance. Limiting what can get a clear shot on them and taking advantage of cover is vital to using fragile units like Ork Trukks.....vehicles.....Orks in general.

My brother runs boys in trukks with lootas I'm the background quite successfully. The trick is to have 3+ of them for target dispersion.

As for hull points, a wrecked vehicle is operated much just terrain unless it blows up. This happens if they get a pen and roll a 6(if no ap), a 5(if the gun is ap2), or a 4(ap 1), I'm which case it explodes d6" for s4 ap- hits to all models I'm the radius.

I love Trukks, they are both terrible and amazing all in one cheap package. They give you a chance to move a unit anywhere up to 24" a turn, getting us in nice and close where the majority of our units will be most effective, they're an open-topped vehicle so you can squeeze some extra distance out of shooting units (measuring from anywhere on the hull) and you can charge your Boyz and Nobz straight out of them. Sure they are prone to being destroyed and half the time that will happen before they get into an ideal location but the alternative is walking your squishy units up the table weathering all sorts of shooting, a much worse proposition in my experience.

To really make the most of Trukks you really need to use a lot of them, in an 1850 game you can fit in 10 fairly easily for example, and to resist temptation to make the units inside them too expensive. Some examples of how I like to run my units in Trukks would be: 11 Slugga Boyz with power klaw bosspole Nob + Mek, 3 Meganobz with a bosspole and killsaws, 5 Tankbustas with bomb squigs and maybe a Tankhammer, 5 Burna Boyz, even a unit of 5 Lootas deployed into Ruins. All these units provide some sort of threat to your opponent and putting multiples of these on the board can cause your opponent to be forced into difficult decisions. Keeping them cheap ensures you aren't losing too much when any transport is destroyed and you can field multiples of the same unit to replace those that don't make it.

They're pretty much as fragile as any vehicle gets but you can give them a measure of protection in a few ways - hold then in reserves and move Flat Out the turn they come in, deploy behind cover or out of line of sight, utilise terrain moving up the board (always take a Reinforced Ram), screen them with a unit of Boyz, Stormboyz, Warbikers, Deffkoptas etc, use a Void Shield Generator. If you can get behind cover you'll be giving your 30 point Trukk a 4/5+ cover save and a 6+ Ramshackle 'save' against penetrating hits. It's not exactly durable but it can make a difference.

As for your rules questions be sure to re-read the Vehicles section of the rule book as it's quite clear on when, how and why a vehicle explodes or when it is simply destroyed and becomes terrain. Only penetrating hits can explode a vehicle and when you run out of Hull Points, unless a 7 is rolled on the Vehicle Damage chart for any penetrating hits, the vehicle is destroyed and then treated as terrain. Any exploding vehicles will potentially damage the unit on board and any other units within D6".

xlDuke wrote:
screen them with a unit of Boyz

....
just what are you using your trucks for, when you move them 6" a turn ?


@OP trukks are a death trap, join team Looted wagon we have 1 Av more and no heavy support slots to spare ; )

Trukks are fragile as heck, but they're flipping fast, letting you get your lads where you want them to be. If you're deploying them in the open, you're asking for trouble (and basically throwing 30+ points down the drain). If you can't get to where you need to be in a single turn, utilise cover as best you can on the way.

 oldzoggy wrote:

xlDuke wrote:
screen them with a unit of Boyz

....
just what are you using your trucks for, when you move them 6" a turn ?


@OP trukks are a death trap, join team Looted wagon we have 1 Av more and no heavy support slots to spare ; )

You can put up a screen of bodies in front of the trukks (bikes turned sideways do the trick quite well) and then move them out of the way for the trukks to zoom up the board.

Also Battlewagons are where it is at.

I like my trukks with Void Shield Generator. Run bully boyz in trukks with decent results.

 oldzoggy wrote:

xlDuke wrote:
screen them with a unit of Boyz

....
just what are you using your trucks for, when you move them 6" a turn ?


@OP trukks are a death trap, join team Looted wagon we have 1 Av more and no heavy support slots to spare ; )

It's not a tactic I'd employ meticulously throughout the game, it's more of a moment of opportunity idea. Say you've got a deployment zone without much terrain and you're going second, you make tour an cover saves using less valuable units, then during your movement you create a gap in the front ranks of the Boyz (keeping coherency at the sides and back of the unit) then drive your Trukk through the newly opened space. Or during the game you can grab a chance to tuck your Trukk just behind another unit for the turn to grab a little cover temporarily. There are a few units you only want moving 6", Tankbustas and Flash Gitz for example.

Do you find the extra AV from a Looted Wagon to be worth losing the HS slot for? I dont find Rhino's very hard to destroy and those things aren't Open Topped. If I'm using a HS slot to transport a unit I would rather a Gunwagon or even a Battlewagon. I can't deny that I have a soft spot for Looted Wagons though.

'Don't press dat' is a bummer.

Na don't press that isn't that much of a deal.

When I use them as a transport they will be already moving at top speed. And you can just place then in such a way that they hit a speed bump if they do go crazy. They have to stop before they hit something. ; )




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I dislike that they take up heavy slots it doesn't feel fair in the current game. But I do still use them in casual games either by going multi cad I will need this any way for my fast attack options or by going unbound.
I do not consider my oks a tournament army so unbound is a real option and I actually do not like the rest of the heavy support options that much making double CAD more viable than you might expect.

The reason why I don't like the rest of the heavy support options.

Loota's kinda like them, but I am using them as long as I play orks and I do not like them that much any more. Sure they do a lot of damage but I don't like the to play with the same immobile paper thin unit game in game out.
Mek guns -> Blegh I actually think that they are bad. They have a abysmal LD and the dmg output isnt that good either really. Non of the infantry murdering things are barrage or ignore cover, and there is no decent High str anti tank gun.
I use allied renegade guards modelled as primitive humans / digga nobs instead. There is just no way that a mek gun could ever compete to a BS2 20pt twin linked rapier laser destroyer, an earthshaker cannon platform or a whyveren.
Flash gits... -> Nope
Walkers -> Sadly no longer worth it.
Gun wagon, big track -> good options, but I generally do not have the points to spare nor do I like invoking IA8 for a insignificant unit like this.
Battle wagon -> Too expensive for my taste

So yeah there is enough room for them in most of my lists.

I use a KFF bubble from a mek on a bike to keep the trukks alive. If nothing else, it saves a couple shots from going in that usually are low AP. Actually, most of the time O use the relic mega force field for that sweet 4++. The total cost is about a venerable dreadnaught but if you divide that cost by how many trukks you have (i run 3 and a biker deffstar with the mek sitting in the middle of the trukk formation) , then you can rationalize the cost by saying its just a relative handful to givr your trukk that much more survivability so you CAN use them how they were intended.

Trukkz are a great way to lose a game turn 1.

Trukk/Ram + 10boyz a Nob/PK and a Mek = about 145pts. That is a lot of points.

Most armies can generally kill 2-3 trukks a turn without to much effort. If they successfully blow up a trukk (+1 to dmg chart because of open topped) those troops inside are going to lose on average about 40-50% of the boyz. 4+ to wound and 6+ armor equals 5 dead out of 12 = Morale check which mean 50/50 to fail and add in D6 more casualties. Suddenly that Trukk just lost you 6-8 Boyz (36-48pts) and the trukk itself (35pts counting the Ram).

The only way trukkz work as mentioned is if you spam them, unfortunately that doesn't work well either because your opponents will prioritize the Manz missiles and maybe the Tank bustas if they really are afraid of them. and Boyz in a trukk just aren't that scary.

One can hide trukks behind battlewagons though.

Martel732 wrote:
One can hide trukks behind battlewagons though.

Not really. Trukkz are faster, Battlewagons have Sidearmor of 12 so you really don't want to turn it to cover up more of the trukk. and finally. 110pt for a naked battlewagon is not really a good investment to help you get Boyz across the field.

Battlewagons are also basically garbage. They are a cheaper version of the Landraider with none of the weapons and far less durability.

I think battlewagons are worth it for the cheap AV 14. No one is firing the weapons on a land raider if they want to get their cargo where it is going.

Martel732 wrote:
I think battlewagons are worth it for the cheap AV 14. No one is firing the weapons on a land raider if they want to get their cargo where it is going.

110pts for a single AV14 facing that is tiny. That is not cheap, and its very easy to maneuver to hit the AV12 sides, especially when its driving as fast as it can to close the distance.

I have mixed feelings about trukks.
On one had I don't like them very much but on the other I can see how they "could" be fantastic. I played some 30K a month or more ago and had my marines in a rhino and couldn't get them out how or when I wanted too. Just because it's a closed topped vehicle I guess.
I've got 15 trukks but aside from putting them in a large point list I've not tried to use them very often in lower point games( below 2500 points) Maybe there better in lower points games.
I know they're death traps and can't bring myself to mess with them. If I recall, the last time I did the TAU popped 9 of them on turn one. my few survivors were then beaten to death by their nobs. leaving maybe 7 or 8 models from the collective mobs from all the trukks. It put's me in the what's the point mood. I guess I could spam them out at 105 point a unit over 2 CAD? maybe that would work in 1850 points. Just doesn't sound like it would really do anything during a game to me.

Trukks are really fragile. Like impressively so. A big part of the problem is that when they pop they kill close to half the occupants via explosion (assuming they're standard 6+ orks) then mob rule will probably kick in killing more. They aren't really viable transports for regular boyz anymore.

 gnome_idea_what wrote:
Trukks are really fragile. Like impressively so. A big part of the problem is that when they pop they kill close to half the occupants via explosion (assuming they're standard 6+ orks) then mob rule will probably kick in killing more. They aren't really viable transports for regular boyz anymore.

exactly, you pretty much have to invest in Eavy armor to make it even remotely feasible and even then your losing at least 25% of your unit and you just went from 6pts a model to 10. 11boyz and a nob take a S4 hit. 6 wounds, against 4+ armor = 3 dead boyz Morale check, 50/50 to fail, if you fail D6 more hits at S4 so lets say 4 2 wounds and 1 more dead boy.

So your stupid trukk explodes, goodbye 35pts. And because of it exploding you just lost 4 more boyz for 40 more points gone. 75pt loss because Trukkz tend to explode as often as they work.

Martel732 wrote:
I think battlewagons are worth it for the cheap AV 14. No one is firing the weapons on a land raider if they want to get their cargo where it is going.

Battlewagons are only av14 vs immobile shooters. Vs anything that can move they're av 12.

It seems pretty common on here for people to dismiss something as garbage, a complete waste of points, etc, by dwelling on the worst case scenario. Hit and penetrated by most weapons, a trukk's only going to blow up 1/6 of the time. Which is the same chance it has of shrugging off the pen due to Ramshackle. As with most things Orky, if things go badly, they go very badly, but that's just the way Orks are.

 Nazrak wrote:
It seems pretty common on here for people to dismiss something as garbage, a complete waste of points, etc, by dwelling on the worst case scenario. Hit and penetrated by most weapons, a trukk's only going to blow up 1/6 of the time. Which is the same chance it has of shrugging off the pen due to Ramshackle. As with most things Orky, if things go badly, they go very badly, but that's just the way Orks are.

Very true which is while in the case of Trukks quantity is a quality all on its own. Expecting one trukk to not explode is foolish but for every trukk that gets 1 shot popped there is probably another trukk that refuses to die and soaks well above its points in shooting. End of the day they are absolutely amazing transports (cheap, fast, opened top), the issue with them is the cargo they tend to transport can't withstand explosions very well. A bit unrelated but imagine if Space Marines had access to Ork transports. Black Templar Crusader Squads or Blood Claw units in Battlewagons would be amazing as they can actually get to the enemy quickly and in relatively one piece to charge turn 2. Terminators or Assault Cents in trukks actually be viable, etc. Ork transports are outstanding for an assault army but its the weakness of Ork infantry that makes them seem bad.

 Vankraken wrote:

 Nazrak wrote:
It seems pretty common on here for people to dismiss something as garbage, a complete waste of points, etc, by dwelling on the worst case scenario. Hit and penetrated by most weapons, a trukk's only going to blow up 1/6 of the time. Which is the same chance it has of shrugging off the pen due to Ramshackle. As with most things Orky, if things go badly, they go very badly, but that's just the way Orks are.

Very true which is while in the case of Trukks quantity is a quality all on its own. Expecting one trukk to not explode is foolish but for every trukk that gets 1 shot popped there is probably another trukk that refuses to die and soaks well above its points in shooting. End of the day they are absolutely amazing transports (cheap, fast, opened top), the issue with them is the cargo they tend to transport can't withstand explosions very well. A bit unrelated but imagine if Space Marines had access to Ork transports. Black Templar Crusader Squads or Blood Claw units in Battlewagons would be amazing as they can actually get to the enemy quickly and in relatively one piece to charge turn 2. Terminators or Assault Cents in trukks actually be viable, etc. Ork transports are outstanding for an assault army but its the weakness of Ork infantry that makes them seem bad.

The problem Nazrak is that you are dismissing the opinions of several ork players who have hundreds of games under their belts because you want Orks to be good, I don't even know why you want that to be true but whatever.

A Trukk has a 1/6 chance to explode on a pen, unless the weapon is AP2 then its a 1/3 chance, or if its an AP1 then its a 1/2 chance, or if its Eldar BS with AP0 then its a 2/3rd chance.

The list of units capable of killing a Trukk in 1 shooting phase is a very long one indeed. Naz you don't seem to get this as well as Van does. When a trukk explodes it will kill about 50% of its cargo unless you pay out the nose for 4+ armor or its Meganobz. And even then if it doesn't kill them outright or if it doesn't explode your left with a neutered threat. a Small squad of Boyz walking up the field are not even remotely scary.

Let me put it another way, I ran a list a while back with 2 BWs in it and 3 trukkz. On turn 1 my opponent IGNORED my BWs and popped all 3 of my Trukkz, 1 exploded and basically wiped out the boyz inside. In a 1,500pt game losing 3 trukkz on turn 1 is devastating, yeah I still had 2 intact squads but now they were footlogging and as we all know, in this edition...that doesn't work, especially for MSU Ork boyz.

Now I could have not taken those 2 Battlewagons and instead fielded 4 Minimum squads of trukk boyz or whatever but that would have been setting myself up for even more failure.

Battlewagons are over priced and under perform every game and even they are a better option then Trukkz.




Automatically Appended Next Post:
And lets not even talk about the stupid "NO ESCAPE" Rule involving OT Transports and flamer weapons...

SemperMortis wrote:
popped all 3 of my Trukkz

Try VSG.

 koooaei wrote:

SemperMortis wrote:
popped all 3 of my Trukkz

Try VSG.

3 Trukks with MSU Boyz is a bit under 400pts (thats the problem from the start, to expensive for what little they can do) The VSG is 50-100pts depending on how many shields you buy, generally you see all 3 purchased because it doesn't make much sense otherwise.

realistically for that kind of build its not worth it. If I took another 2-3 trukks loaded up then it would make sense.

By themselves trukks are to expensive and deady for what they do. Considering how often Trukkz explode and kill half the unit inside I would say they should be a FREE upgrade. Even then they wouldn't be taken in huge number or exploited like you see with SMs gladius strike force.

Can't say till you try. Was worth for me every time.

I personally find that trukks live long enough to do their job (generally) if you just put them out of LOS as much possible turn 1, or just get some cover.

But yes, charging turn 1 with tankbusta trukks is going to be a bad time.

Tankbusta trukks can make a great late game unit, though, by that time there's usually bigger threats than a couple humble trukks.

The fact of the matter is that trukks do just one thing - get your troops 24" up the field. This is especially true with things like meganobz.

Anyways, just try for some cover or get out of LOS for your trukks turn 1, regardless of whether or not you go first. I once saw a game of orks v. grey knights, and the ork player was going first and had 6 trukks lined up, touching each other, versus 2-3 shunting dreadknights with torrent flamers. I told him it was a bad idea, could always get the initiative stolen, and then it was. Then he lost the game turn 1.

As for battlewagons........I might be alone, but I almost never use them. Part of that is the fact that I'm still miffed by deffrollas.

The other part is that I rarely have HS slots to spare, and that I find that trukks generally do the same job as battlewagons for a third the points.

And while BWs do have a greater chance of getting to their location safely, once they do they are almost useless, just a ~120 point model pathetically plinking with big shootas.

And by the time they hit the front lines, assault troops or meltaguns tend to destroy them just as easily as trukks.

Anyways, maybe it's just me.