Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

So, seeing that 30k thingy is all the rage these days, and that it has the reputation of being much better balanced than current 40k, I decided to take the plunge and actually do an army.

I finally chose loyalist Iron Warriors both because I like the related lore and the idea of playing loyalist underdogs, and because IWs are easy to paint and I want to have a painted army, for a change .

I have access to the Calth and Prospero, which I have assembled the following way:

- The two Calth characters as is
- 5 Cataphractii termies with combi weapons and a HFL.
- 30 Calth Mk IV Marines (3 sergeants, 3 marines with Vexilla, 6 plasguns, 3 missile launchers, 5 heavy bolters, 10 regular bolter marines)
- 30 Prospero Mk III Marines (3 sergeants, 3 marines with Vexilla, 6 meltaguns, 3 flamers, 15 regular bolter marines).
- Contemptor Dreadnought with power fist and assault cannon.

The rest are unassembled so far (well, actually most of the Mk III marines are too [I need to fix a problem with the box, that came with a missing sprue), but that's the idea.

I also have access to a sizable amount of old Mk II-V metal marines (about 20) that I plan to use as regular bolter marine filler, and some vehicles I'll probably repurpose for this (two old metal Chaos Predators, a "new" predator, a Land Raider and a "new" Rhino, plus I have sprues for... maybe a couple more Predators and possibly 3-4 Rhinos).

So, with that, I have started sketching the following list:

Legion: Loyalist Iron Warriors.

HQ
- Legion Praetor (Warsmith) with Cataphractii armor, combi-weapon and chainfist (157)

ELITES
- Legion Contemptor Dreadnought with Assault Cannon and Extra Armor (200)

TROOPS
- Legion Tactical Squad: 10 marines with sergeant, Vexilla and additional chainswords/combat blades (155)
- Legion Tactical Squad: 10 marines with sergeant, Vexilla and additional chainswords/combat blades (155)
- Legion Tactical Support Squad: 7 marines with sergeant and 6 meltaguns (235)
- Legion Tactical Support Squad: 7 marines with sergeant and 6 plasmaguns (235)

HEAVY SUPPORT
- Iron Havoc Support Squad: 8 marines with sergeant (HB), 4 Heavy Bolters and 3 Missile Launchers.
- Tyrant Siege Terminator Squad: 5 terminators with Siege Master.

Almost 2000 points already with "just" that, but... is that list any good at all? I'm guessing I should probably reinforce the tactical units, add more bodies, and put there the tanks, but... am I on the right track with something like that?

Thematically, the idea was that the Mk IV-clad marines are either more elite, more shooty or more specialized than the Mk IIIs: given the idiosincrasies of the IV Legion, they expect to suffer heavy casualties, and as far as they are concerned, there's no reason to throw away the more advanced battle plates on... well, the more disposable troops. Mk IIIs are also issued to assault specialists due to the better frontal protection, hence why I'm putting the meltas and flamers on them.

Another question: I have 2 old "Deimos" pattern Predators that I'm planning on refurbish, but the rest of my current vehicles are modern marks. How "unfluffy" is that? AFAIK, both the older and newer marks were in use during the Crusade, so...

You're definitely on the right track. Solid list, nothing I would change/tweak.

Personally not a big fan of tac support squads, esp if they don't have transport, but really it's a matter of taste.

I would do the havocs with all ML, but ymmv just seems like a waste to shoot at vehicles etc with HB's.

Fluff wise you can always justify MK4 armor on IW, they had the highest attrition rate due to casualties of any legion and the highest recruitment/induction rate due to having the most stable/acceptable geneseed.

MK4 was being rolled out in mass production so as long as your crusade force was being resupplied properly they would certainly have had access to this model.

Re the Preds, My only issue with 1st/2nd edition vehicles is they are considerably smaller than 3rd-7th ed counterparts, so if you can I would consider bolstering thethe size of them with some plasticard. Don't forget your RoW also gives them extra armor, so extra plates on the outside are an option.

Thanks for the comments . So far I'm not too married to anything, save for the fact that I have certain amounts of stuff (Iron Havocs, for example, have the weapons they have because that's the stuff I actually have, although I'd probably be much better off being able to do two different units... maybe dropping the MLs would be better? I could use the extra points elsewhere.

As I have the meltas and plasguns for them, I'd like to test the tactical support squads first to see if they work for me. After a couple tests I'll see how I feel about them.

I'll certainly have to take into account the size differences between the various models, thanks for pointing it out. I'll probably need to pick up some plasticard at least.

Taking into account the above, and the amount of vehicles I'll probably be able to use for this, this would

Provisional IW list (1997pts)

+ HQ (157pts) +

Legion Praetor (157pts) [Cataphractii Terminator Armour with Combi-bolter and Power Weapon (35pts), Chainfist (15pts), Combi-Weapon (7pts), Warsmith]

+ Elites (190pts) +

Contemptor Dreadnought Talon (190pts)
Legion Contemptor Dreadnought (190pts) [Kheres Pattern Assault Cannon (15pts)]

+ Troops (970pts) +

Legion Tactical Squad (220pts) [Legion Rhino Armoured Carrier (35pts), 9x Legion Tactical Space Marines (90pts)]
Additional Wargear (30pts) [Additional Chainswords/Combat Blades (20pts), Bolters, Legion Vexilla (10pts)]
Legion Tactical Sergeant (30pts) [Melta Bombs (5pts), Plasma Pistol (15pts)]
Power Weapon (10pts) [Power Sword]

Legion Tactical Squad (210pts) [Legion Rhino Armoured Carrier (35pts), 9x Legion Tactical Space Marines (90pts)]
Additional Wargear (30pts) [Additional Chainswords/Combat Blades (20pts), Bolters, Legion Vexilla (10pts)]
Legion Tactical Sergeant (20pts) [Bolter, Melta Bombs (5pts), Power Fist (15pts)]

Legion Tactical Support Squad (270pts) [Legion Rhino Armoured Carrier (35pts), 6x Legion Space Marines (90pts), Melta Guns (105pts)]

Legion Tactical Support Squad (270pts) [Legion Rhino Armoured Carrier (35pts), 6x Legion Space Marines (90pts), Plasma Guns (105pts)]

+ Heavy Support (680pts) +

Iron Havoc Support Squad (275pts) [7x Iron Havoc (175pts), 3x Missile Launcher (with Frag, Krak, & Flakk missiles) (15pts)]

Legion Predator Strike Armoured Squadron (110pts)
Legion Predator Tank (110pts) [Heavy Bolter (15pts), Heavy Bolters (20pts), Shrapnel Bolts]

Tyrant Siege Terminator Squad (295pts) [4x Tyrant Terminator (200pts)]

+ Legion +

Legiones Astartes [ IV: Iron Warriors, Loyalist]

Rite of War [The Hammer of Olympia]

I also have access to a standard Land Raider, another 2 assembled Predators (another regular one and an Annihilator), and another unassembled Predator, so there's certainly some wiggle room. The above would also leave me around 25 regular bolter marines free to use, three flamer guys, the chaplain from Calth and some vexillas and sergeants. And the rest of the stuff from the Prospero box (termies, custodes and sisters), although I'm not too sure how would I fit those.

You need 3 tactical squads to run Hammer of Olympia, and it doesn't work super well with guys in Rhinos since they really kneecap your assault capabilities.

In all honesty, if you're not taking a bunch of bolter dudes and the 4th HS choice HoO isn't even really worth it. You can just take no RoW and not take a Warsmith (who gives up an additional VP if killed).

You don't need three tactical squads, you have three compulsory troops choices, which means assault squads and breacher units as well.

You definitely aren't capitalising on the fourth heavy slot. With both IW special units being heavy support, you should be filling those four without a problem. I'd consider switching one of those support squads for another big gun.

Edit error corrected.

Hammer of Olympia requires 3 compulsory troop choices, the only units which can fill these are ones who do not have the support squad special rule these are tactical squads, assault squads and breacher squads.
Honestly the list looks good but i wouldnt mix and match your iron havocs, just take all ml as mixing the squad with 2 such wildly different weapons will be counter productive.
Foot slog the tacticals, they can rapid fire and charge so use it if you can, apothecaries will help with this.
Preds are good.
Contempters are good.
Maybe consider a normal praetor and taking a siege breaker to go with the tyrants for tank hunter, he fulfills the requirment of HOO too.

Plasma supoport squads are fantastic, having 10 plasma support with perturabo a kitted out praetor and an apothecary/primus medicae jump out of a spartan, rapid fire and then charge will kill just about any unit including primarchs and their bodyguard.

Thanks for all the comments. A bit of a disclosure: I'm returning to play 40k (well, 30k) from a long absence. I have not really played the game since I stopped being a redshirt back when we were selling the Battle of Macragge starter, so I'm very rusty, and stuff like Rites of War, formations and the like tend to go a bit over my head. Even Hull Points make me do a double take, TBH.

More Dakka wrote:You need 3 tactical squads to run Hammer of Olympia, and it doesn't work super well with guys in Rhinos since they really kneecap your assault capabilities.

In all honesty, if you're not taking a bunch of bolter dudes and the 4th HS choice HoO isn't even really worth it. You can just take no RoW and not take a Warsmith (who gives up an additional VP if killed).

I must admit I was not even thinking about Rites of War at first. I was going more for "core of stuff from what I have that I could use to expand from", so I may certainly just not get a Warsmith at first.

JamesY wrote:You don't need three tactical squads, you have three compulsory troops choices, which means assault squads and breacher units as well.

You definitely aren't capitalising on the fourth heavy slot. With both IW special units being heavy support, you should be filling those four without a problem. I'd consider switching one of those support squads for another big gun.

I don't have Breachers yet, but I was meaning to ask... how good are they, in people's experience? And what alternatives are there for making a unit? I'd prefer to get a plaxtic unit and convert it from either GW/FW or third party stuff than buy enough resin units for it (I'm not a big fan of resin, so I'd prefer to limit myself to parts instead of full models, with maybe the occasional vehicle).

As for using support squads... well, that was mainly because I had them ^_^.

King Amroth wrote:Hammer of Olympia requires 3 compulsory troop choices, the only units which can fill these are ones who do not have the support squad special rule these are tactical squads, assault squads and breacher squads.
Honestly the list looks good but i wouldnt mix and match your iron havocs, just take all ml as mixing the squad with 2 such wildly different weapons will be counter productive.
Foot slog the tacticals, they can rapid fire and charge so use it if you can, apothecaries will help with this.
Preds are good.
Contempters are good.
Maybe consider a normal praetor and taking a siege breaker to go with the tyrants for tank hunter, he fulfills the requirment of HOO too.

Thanks for the rundown . The Iron Havocs are mixed up due to me not having enough MLs to do a full unit, TBH. I'd rather not proxy if possible... I do have new style MLs, though, but I fear that would look out of place in a 30k list...

Given the above comments, I'm considering just not using RoW until later, and just going for a regular HQ character. That would same me some points for other stuf, so... how much would I be shooting myself in the foot, were I to do that?

Plasma supoport squads are fantastic, having 10 plasma support with perturabo a kitted out praetor and an apothecary/primus medicae jump out of a spartan, rapid fire and then charge will kill just about any unit including primarchs and their bodyguard.

You lost me there xD. I really need to get up to date with all this stuff.

Another question: I was thinking about getting some weapons packs from FW (I want to buy the IWs decal set, so I was thinking about adding some stuff to the order). Specifically, I was thinking about getting some of the following:

https://www.forgeworld.co.uk/en-GB/Proteus-II-Pattern-Missile-Launchers-Set
https://www.forgeworld.co.uk/en-GB/Kalibrax-Pattern-Autocannon-Set
https://www.forgeworld.co.uk/en-GB/Graviton-Gun-Set-2015
https://www.forgeworld.co.uk/en-GB/Legion-Volkite-Caliver-Set-2015
https://www.forgeworld.co.uk/en-GB/Legion-Volkite-Charger-Set-2015

Which leads to the question: how good would those be for an IW list? Is Volkite stuff worth it, taking into account that's either one in 5 in certain units or full unit for supports? (and it appears the support squad gets mixed reactions) The ML set would mostly be to be able to field a full unit, but I'm not so sure about the ACs. I mean, I like the look, and I guess they would mix better with HBs, but are they worth it in numbers? Graviton guns, I'm not too sure about either, TBH.

Thanks for all the advice

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Ok, let's see... how about something like this?

Iron Warriors test list, v0.2 (2002pts)

+ HQ (102pts) +

Legion Centurion (102pts) [Cataphractii Terminator Armour with Combi-bolter and Power Weapon (35pts), Chainfist (10pts), Combi-Weapon (7pts)]

+ Elites (365pts) +

Contemptor Dreadnought Talon (365pts)
Legion Contemptor Dreadnought (190pts) [Kheres Pattern Assault Cannon (15pts)]
Legion Contemptor Dreadnought (175pts) [Multi-Melta]

+ Troops (835pts) +

Legion Tactical Squad (305pts) [19x Legion Tactical Space Marines (190pts)]
Additional Wargear (50pts) [Additional Chainswords/Combat Blades (40pts), Bolters, Legion Vexilla (10pts)]
Legion Tactical Sergeant (30pts) [Melta Bombs (5pts), Plasma Pistol (15pts)]
Power Weapon (10pts) [Power Sword]

Legion Tactical Squad (295pts) [19x Legion Tactical Space Marines (190pts)]
Additional Wargear (50pts) [Additional Chainswords/Combat Blades (40pts), Bolters, Legion Vexilla (10pts)]
Legion Tactical Sergeant (20pts) [Melta Bombs (5pts), Power Fist (15pts)]

Legion Tactical Support Squad (235pts) [6x Legion Space Marines (90pts), Plasma Guns (105pts)]

+ Heavy Support (700pts) +

Iron Havoc Support Squad (215pts) [4x Iron Havoc (100pts), 4x Missile Launcher (with Frag, Krak, & Flakk missiles) (20pts)]
Iron Havoc Sergeant (10pts) [Augury Scanner (5pts), Missile Launcher (with Frag, Krak, & Flakk missiles) (5pts)]

Legion Predator Strike Armoured Squadron (190pts)
Legion Predator Tank (95pts) [Heavy Bolters (20pts), Shrapnel Bolts]
Legion Predator Tank (95pts) [Heavy Bolters (20pts), Shrapnel Bolts]

Tyrant Siege Terminator Squad (295pts) [4x Tyrant Terminator (200pts)]

+ Legion +

Legiones Astartes [ IV: Iron Warriors, Loyalist]

I would need to shave 2 points from somewhere, and to get 2 additional MLs, but I have access to the rest of the stuff as is: footslogging everyone, full sized tacticals, one more Contemptor and an additional Predator. I would wait to get a Warsmith/Rite of War until later on, which would help me get a better hang of the rules before going full deep.

Would this work as a decent core list?

That's a good start to build out of the models you have. I would suggest saving points by taking the combi-wep off the Praetor, just a normal combi bolter is fine.

None of the items you listed are bad, all solid choices with very different applications and units that can take them.

Auto Cannons are a really solid choice for Iron Havocs

As far as details in the list I am not keen on upgrades for the Sgt, aside from Artificer Armor and melta bombs, so you can save some points there.

I think if you move those pts around and take a Kheres on your 2nd Dreadnought you'll get more mileage out of both.

 More Dakka wrote:
That's a good start to build out of the models you have. I would suggest saving points by taking the combi-wep off the Praetor, just a normal combi bolter is fine.

None of the items you listed are bad, all solid choices with very different applications and units that can take them.

Auto Cannons are a really solid choice for Iron Havocs

As far as details in the list I am not keen on upgrades for the Sgt, aside from Artificer Armor and melta bombs, so you can save some points there.

I think if you move those pts around and take a Kheres on your 2nd Dreadnought you'll get more mileage out of both.

Thanks for the rundown, much appreciated

Currently the second Contemptor has a multi melta because I'm getting one from a friend and it's already assembled, so until I can find a way of "fixing" it, I'm kind of stuck with that. Sergeants are similarly equipped, but I'm quite sure I can get swaps from elsewhere. The Praetor's equipment come from the mini (the Calth one) without modding, but I'm sure I could mod it with no much trouble.

Would it be worth it to split the tactical blobs into 3 or 4 smaller units? Given they are IWs, they won't be rolling Morale from shooting, and they'll reroll Pinning, so it might be advantageous to do that.

The problem with smaller units is twofold.

1) They cost more than a larger unit because of the tax you pay for the starting unit size compared to the cost of adding additional models.

2) they just die REALLY easily if they're not big squads.

Huh. Well then, 20 man it is (I have the minis, so might as well use them ^_^).

Once you start playing with this list you can see what you like/don't like play wise and adjust, the other option is to do 10 man squads in Land Raiders and then take the Hammer of Olympia RoW to shoot and charge

 More Dakka wrote:
Once you start playing with this list you can see what you like/don't like play wise and adjust, the other option is to do 10 man squads in Land Raiders and then take the Hammer of Olympia RoW to shoot and charge

That's an option, but it will have to wait, as I only have one LR right now xD. In the meantime I'll need to test what I have.

Thanks!