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Hello,
I feel like the renegades and heretics aren't getting the love the deserve and they lack on tactics so I decided to put up this thread to ask more experienced players for advice and create a place to welcome newbies to this army.

I'm currently experimenting with massed chaos spawn (15-21) and multiple (2) giant chaos spawn (in an 1850 point list).

They provide a nice (very cheap) high toughness threat in addition to massed T3 zombies. Also the spawn's speed is useful for getting to deep field objectives.

Also something I've been toying with is a large squad with CC weapons, an enforcer with an axe and combat drugs, and a mark of khorne. Provides a ton of attacks on the charge for reasonably cheap but idk how effective it'd be.

I'd be interested in knowing how viable Ordnance Tyrant + KDK is. I hate bringing shooting with my KDK because by Turn 2+ I'm in close combat covering half the board and the shooting has nothing to do or is out of range. The ability to drop pie plates on my Hounds and Maulers who are engaged with enemies would, on paper, be awesome since they could shrug off the assault with deamon saves.

With Ordnance tyrant you have very little to protect your ordinance, so its usually more beneficial to go all ordinace. In an 1850 pt list, you can ususally fit 2-4 of each of the following
Wyverns
Quad Mortars
Basilisk
Medusas
Lasier Rapier Destroyers
2 or so bubble wrap units or tar pits.

Anything you take away means you approach survivable amounts of shooting. On the other hand, 2 medusa shots, 4 wyverns, 3 Rapiers, and 6 quad mortars on turn 1 can cripple them from the jump if you roll well (welcome to chaos).

If you want to add KDK allies, keep in mind only KDK benefit from the blood tithe, which means to get the most out of them you want as many KDK MSU units as possible, again, not good for allies in general.

If you need artillery for KDK, get a knight, or some decimators, soul grinders, impalers, etc. Something with tithe options. If you are running R&H and need some choppy, get a lord of war like a Greater Scorpion, load up on cheap spawn, or just dont. They don't do Assualt with Artillery as well as you would expect, in my experience, just by point spreads. Now if youre playing a 2500 pt game, then maybe some DThirtsters will fit nicely.

I've got a master of hoard list that I've been playing with and its a blast. For about 600 points, you get 100 odd respawning stubborn renegades with flamers and meltabombs, able to grind down most anything (eventually) and -really- force your opponent to play the objective. I fill the rest of the list with CSM or daemon allies, bringing soul grinders, renegade knights, summoning daemons, or whatever other beefy support I can fit in.

The respawning on the infantry squads really changes the feel of the game, and even though its a relatively small hoard army (100 models, pft), it can really stay on the table and punches way above its weight.

The strength of r&h depends mostly on how the rules(master of renegades, spawn) are interpreted and how much formations/detachments are allowed.
Also unnerfed invisibility is game breaker.

I had success with a ordance tyrant based list + crimson slaughter addon.
2*2 Wyverns
2*3 Rapiers
1*3 Griffons
3 Earthshakers
4 units of Zombies(because r&h Spawn are not allowed (here) in a IASoV detachement)

CR Sorc with Balestar for either divination(misfortune, ignore cover, twin link) or geomortis (move terrain, ignore cover)
min. troops
Heldrake
2*3 Nurgle Spawn
Sicarian

I have tried some more close combat focused allies for r&h but in my experience you do damage with your artillery and just take cc units for their ability to block/bind stuff.

Some tricks:
The master of renegades is an IC, so hide him in a Artillery unit.
Rogue psyker witch makes the commander fearless, see above.
Earthshakers like ignore cover.
Wyverns like misfortune on a unit.
55p for 3 Spawn is just to good.
A griffon for 35 is a steal even if just used to hide your other units behind it.

Thank you OP for making this. I've been building up my R&H list for a while, but it'll still be a bit before I get any playing in, most likely. I just had to go with catachans as my base models for most of the army, and it takes a long time for them to get ordered/come in.

cod3x wrote:
If you need artillery for KDK, get a knight, or some decimators, soul grinders, impalers, etc. Something with tithe options.

I know this isn't a KDK thread but I wanted to know more about taking decimators for artillery. Are you saying beamers are good or?

I don't see many using the unending host formation, so I decided to make this list and use it next week. 1850 points, 160ish model count, 90 return on a 2+ if destroyed, 2 knights with guns a blazen. Not sure how effective it would be, or strong, but seems like it could be interesting.

Two (2) renegade knights with duel gatling cannons + stormspear rocket pods.

Arch demagogue with master of hordes and +5 invuln. Minimum command squad with autocannon.

Two command squads - 12 lasguns, 1 sigil, 2 melta guns and militia training per squad.

Six troops - 11 lasguns, 2 flamers, 1 sigil, 1 champ w/ meltabombs per squad.

Mutant Rabble - 19 mutants 1 champ w/ meltabombs.

Mutant Rabble - 19 mutants 1 champ w/ meltabombs.

Sentinals - X 3 with heavy flamers.

Heavy Support - 1 heavy quad launcher 3 crew

How do you take two commnd squads? They come with the archdemagogue and cant get militia training as theyre bs4 already.

@McGibs The two command squads are platoon command squads, not company command squads.

I'm not a fan of knights, They're good, but not that good. If you're gonna go hoard, go all the way. Don't stop at 190 models, go for 300, fill the board.

For each knight you can take another 85 infantry (at 4.5pts/model). I'd rather 85 more returning guys.

Also take militia training on everyone, sure you could buy 3 more dudes for the same price but mathematically it's better value to buy it in squads of 15+.

How do people feel about Hydras? I've never used them but have some stuff laying around. Also have a quad gun aegis line.Don't see a whole lot of fliers but they're getting a bit more common in my area

Most seem to think they're optional. I personally quite like them as another cheap AV12 chassis to add to the griffons and wyverns.

Their ignores-jink special rule can make them MVPs if the opponent brings skimmers/fliers/FMCs. If I run them, I'd run two at 1850pts normally for redundancy

They're going to be pretty pointless against many armies, I admit, but they can push up the field while firing off autocannon/HB shots whilst moving 6" per turn. If nothing else they can distract your opponent from taking out valuable stuff.