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Hey, I'm heading off to a tournament next month and I'm looking for ideas of what to take. So far I've narrowed it down to 2 lists...



1st list


= Burning Skyhost Formation =

Herald of Tzeentch(45), Disc Of Tzeentch (25), Exalted Reward (30), Lvl 3 (50) - [150pts]

3 Screamers of Tzeentch (75) - [75pts]
3 Screamers of Tzeentch (75) - [75pts]
3 Screamers of Tzeentch (75) - [75pts]
3 Screamers of Tzeentch (75) - [75pts]
3 Screamers of Tzeentch (75) - [75pts]
3 Screamers of Tzeentch (75) - [75pts]
3 Screamers of Tzeentch (75) - [75pts]
3 Screamers of Tzeentch (75) - [75pts]
7 Screamers of Tzeentch - 175 pts





GS Cult

Cult Insurrection Detachment

Core Formation - Brood Cycle

Acolyte Iconward - 65
10 Neophytes - 50
10 Neophytes - 50
5 Acolytes - 40
5 Acolytes - 40
5 Acolytes - 40
5 Metamorphs w/ Claws - 55
5 Purestrain Genestealers - 70


Auxiliary Formation - Subterranean Uprising


5 Acolytes - 40
5 Acolytes - 40
5 Acolytes - 40
5 Acolytes - 40
5 Metamorphs w/ claws - 55
5 Metamorphs w/ claws - 55

Auxiliary Formation - Subterranean Uprising

5 Acolytes - 40
5 Acolytes - 40
5 Metamorphs w/ claws - 55





2nd list

Daemon CAD

Herald of Tzeentch(45), Disc Of Tzeentch (25), Lvl 3 (50) - [120pts]

Herald of Tzeentch(45), Disc Of Tzeentch (25), Exalted Reward (30), Lvl 3 (50) - [150pts]

Masque - 75pts

Troops

11 Horrors - 99 pts

Nurglings - 45pts


Fast attack

8 Screamers - 200


GS Cult

Cult Insurrection Detachment

Core Formation - Brood Cycle

Acolyte Iconward - 65
10 Neophytes - 50
10 Neophytes - 50
5 Acolytes - 40
5 Acolytes - 40
5 Acolytes - 40
5 Metamorphs w/ Claws - 55
5 Purestrain Genestealers - 70


Auxiliary Formation - Subterranean Uprising


5 Acolytes - 40
5 Acolytes - 40
5 Acolytes - 40
5 Acolytes - 40
5 Metamorphs w/ claws - 55
5 Metamorphs w/ claws - 55

Auxiliary Formation - Subterranean Uprising


5 Acolytes - 40
5 Acolytes - 40
5 Acolytes - 40
5 Metamorphs w/ claws - 55
5 Metamorphs w/ claws - 55

Auxiliary Formation - Subterranean Uprising

5 Acolytes - 40
5 Acolytes - 40
5 Metamorphs w/ claws - 55




Both lists need work but they'll be facing the toughest ETC style lists possible ie 6 riptides, 40 jetbikes, 4 Imperial Knights, Bark-bark star, 3 wraithknights. Any advice would be welcome.

For the first one... I think if you're going to run a Screamerstar, you either take 9 Screamers or you don't bother. At the very least you want a few extra dice for Summoning so the unit at least has some purpose as ablative wounds for the Summoning Herald - at the moment it's just a middle-of-the-road melee mob that's difficult to kill, which isn't especially useful as a tool. I'd probably ditch the Skyhost and use the points to fill out the Incursion with Summoning dice and monsters. Maybe take a Screamerstar in an Allied detachment or something.

For the 2nd list, I'm not sure what benefits the Genestealer Cults get from allied Screamers. What is it you want them to do that you wouldn't be able to do with another 1000pts of Cultists? Jetbikes, sure, but GSC don't lack for mobility thanks to Cult Ambush, especially not if you're running Subterranean Uprisings. If you want to go for the second option I'd consider chucking the Daemons altogether and just running pure GSC.

I'd say #2, because GSC is "new" your foes will have less idea how to fight you. I think GSC as the main force, with plenty of Psycher, them add in Demons to add Warp Charge could be a winning strategy. GSC can run Summoning, but lack having enough WC...this might be a good way to get them ...

Personally I'd want plenty of Telepathy for the GSC, maybe a little Biomancy.


Good luck!

@BBAP

Well most of the players there will be preparing for counters for a GSC list. I expect to see lot of random double flamer crisis suits and spammed thunder fire cannons. As such I need a counter to the counter. What about adding a daemon cad with a Chaos knight?


@pinecone77

Ahh I might give that a go but it's a 3 detachment max and a decurion detachment counts as 2.

 iddy00711 wrote:
@BBAP

Well most of the players there will be preparing for counters for a GSC list. I expect to see lot of random double flamer crisis suits and spammed thunder fire cannons. As such I need a counter to the counter.

Right, but the GSC has stuff built into the army to do that already. TFCs can't land a glove on Leman Russes, and they're unlikely to table 60-odd Neophytes in a Patriarch's Fearless bubble before your Ambush returns from the shadows to smash the Cannons to bits. Deadly Overwatch can be obviated by sending 3 or 4 units into the flamer-suits, rather than just charging in with 5 dudes and hoping it'll be okay. The biggest problem GSCs face is probably death star units and flyers; Screamers don't help against either.

If you really want to go outside the Codex then Tyranids or Guard would be the place to look. Unless the tournament allows Come The Apocalypse alliances, in which case take some Spess Mehrens or Eldar or something. Not sure Daemons lend anything to a GSC army that they don't already have.

@BBAP

You would throw 4 units into one 33 point model?

The Masque is the cheapest answer to death stars. Combined the GSC hypnosis you have in effect a 0 WS squad (or 0 BS) unable to hit and auto hit in combat and it can only move D3 inches.

GSC relies on rolling 6's for it's Ap2 and anti-tank, unless you add expensive upgrades, which rather defeats the point.

I think you should pure gsc as well tbh, and there's a few very good reasons for it:
- there hasn't been an all infiltrating army in the meta for a long time, armies that can pretty much fully infiltrate can't charge turn 1 and normally by that point they're shot off the board or assaulted off the board, or the use of servo skulls stops them. Gsc can get around this by having the potential to charge turn 1, and the ability to go back into ongoing regain troops and redeploy, no army has ever been able to do that before
- a full gsc army is expensive to buy, a pure gsc army with no IG models is about £500 from gw. That's a lot and not many can afford that in a click of the fingers (you might be able to and that's fair enough), but because it's still not been that long since their release date not many people will be playing them yet, well not to around that points level.
- sort of an expansion of my first point, I personally have just built a list for a tournament in January and have taken an inquisitor with 3 servo skulls and I've got a plan vs gsc, as might others cos they've read what gsc can do. However gsc aren't that common yet therefore many people won't be able to play test their plan vs gsc, therefore they're just relying on what they've read and a strategy. I look at my strategy and think yeah it'll work, I don't know it will. What I'm trying to say is your opponents can take a counter unit to gsc, but they've only read the gsc rules and seen the odd army list cos they're uncommon. Your opponents won't know gsc truely do on the table, the scale of 25+ units popping up all over the board and then returning to reserves to pop up in a more strategic position
- come the apocalypse allies count as enemy models, so it'll mess with your cult ambush rule so another reason to avoid allies
- also by theory you can't be intercepted, the initial cult ambush is done in the deployment phase in which you can't intercept and I believe you can't intercept a unit that's coming from ongoing reserves, I might be wrong but I'm pretty sure you can't.

So yeah take pure gsc if you can and watch your opponents breakdown and cry when they realise what gsc can really do.

 iddy00711 wrote:
You would throw 4 units into one 33 point model?

In the case of a single 33pt model 2 units would probably be enough. but in principle, yeah I would. That's how Ambushing Genestealer Cults work - you mob opponents to death from Ambush. They're seagulls, not eagles. You can **try** to put a single squad into that 33pt model, but the Overwatch will likely kill it, and then you're back to square one.

The Masque is the cheapest answer to death stars. Combined the GSC hypnosis you have in effect a 0 WS squad (or 0 BS) unable to hit and auto hit in combat and it can only move D3 inches.

"To a minimum of 1". The deathstar can still hit, and if it's a **good** deathstar - one built to chuck 80-90% of the wounds it suffers - it doesn't care about being hit either. The Masque adds nothing you don't already have, except a T3 model that can't join any of your units and can potentially freeze out your squads for a turn thanks to One Eye Open.

GSC relies on rolling 6's for it's Ap2 and anti-tank, unless you add expensive upgrades, which rather defeats the point.

No model in the GSC Codex has less than 2 attacks base, and all of your Rending models have at least three, four on the charge. Fishing for Rends on 6 to-hit dice sucks. Fishing for Rends on 40-60 to-hit dice is much less frustrating.


Honestly, you don't need these half-hearted Come The Apocalypse "synergies" to make an effective Genestealer Cults army. The book can stand on its own merits.

Oops my bad, you're right it is to a minimum of 1. But she's still the best option for slowing death stars and FMC, which is the army's biggest weakness. Although I do see your point, less daemons more stealers is where I'm heading to.


What's your opinion on min/maxing rock saws and how would I counter another GSC list?

I've tried it - wasn't impressed. Prevailing wisdom suggests you spend as much of your points on models as possible and save the upgrades for Summoned units. That bears up well, in my experience - your 5-man squads exist to die, and are very good at doing that, so giving one of them a Rock Saw just means he'll die expensive.

I imagine footslogging GSC mirror matches will be a case of who makes best use of Cult Ambush *and* denies it to their opponent, so they lose their mobility and can't Reinforce losses. Some big Patriarch/ Neophyte "deathstar" units with Flamers could act as an assault shield if you lose the Infiltrate roll-off, but the Flamers cost the same as an extra Neophyte and on balance I'd rather have the extra body. Those units will be your anchor blobs on the table while the rest of your dudes are Ambushing, so you want them to have as many wounds as possible.

EDIT: Another reason Rock Saws are bad - they're AP2 close combat weapons and your dudes are T3 5+. The one time I used them I think I one model escaped the Explosion alive out of nine who charged in.