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Hey, I've recently decided to start a 30k army, but I think that my choice is going to be heavily made on the primarchs fluff and their personal ability on the tabletop. I'm mainly starting a 30k army because I love the primarchs and I'm really excited to use them on the tabletop, but I know this isn't considered a competitive choice so I need the primarch I choose to be at leas semi-competitive because they will feauture in at least 80% of my lists. Please take note that I'm not asking which primarch is most likely to win in a straight up fight, just their different strengths and weakness'. E.g charachter killing, horde beating, value for points and buffs to their army. The primarchs whose fluff I enjoy the most and need to know the strengths of are:

Pertuarbo

Ferrus Manus

Vulkan

Konrad Curze

Lorgar

Mortarian


Looking forward to your opinions

https://1d4chan.org/wiki/Warhammer_40,000/Tactics/Space_Marine_Legion_List_(30k)

There is a good break down of the Primarchs under each of their Legions.

I'm still interested in personal opinions too, but this is very helpful so thank you

All of them are decent to excellent in close combat, so you can disregard that when choosing between them (I mean, you don't have Horus on this list, who is the deadliest close combat Primarch).

I like Peterabo bc I like his story and in game he has some cool force multiplying abilities and is decent at shooting and decent in close combat, but he's nearly 500 points by himself.

Kurze is pretty solid too from a force multiplication stand point and he's the only jump infantry Primarch, so he can go with Raptors, Destroyers, Assault Marine blobs etc.

I haven't read up on the others as much, but those are my 2 pics out of the group.

Mortarion is Amazing.

A beast in CC (one of the few primarchs with an instant death weapon) which now swings at I: 3 instead of 1, and gives him up to 7 attacks on the charge.
AMAZING Shooting (arguably one of the most shooty primarchs): a S: 8 AP: 2 pistol w/ sunder or INFINITE long range phosphex bombs (which are AP: 2 and cripple any infantry)
Can warp 10" after a LD check, and can charge after he warps, making him one of the fasted primarchs: 6" move + 10" warp + 12" charge = 28" threat range for melee
T: 7, 7 wounds, and a re-rollable IWND makes him stupidly tough. Additionally, anything that wounds on a flat number (poison and fleshbane, for example) need 6's to wound him. He also re-rolls Toughness checks, and auto-passes dangerous terrain (adding to his speediness)
he also puts an additional -1 to LD for his fear checks (making him a mini curze!) and has a 3+ deny the witch!
Buffs your army really well: all frag weaponry gets Poison (4+) and everyone get stubborn

 Brennonjw wrote:
Mortarion is Amazing.

A beast in CC (one of the few primarchs with an instant death weapon) which now swings at I: 3 instead of 1, and gives him up to 7 attacks on the charge.
n

Silence only lowers his Initiative by 1, wouldnt he be Initiative 4 with it?

 VictorVonTzeentch wrote:

 Brennonjw wrote:
Mortarion is Amazing.

A beast in CC (one of the few primarchs with an instant death weapon) which now swings at I: 3 instead of 1, and gives him up to 7 attacks on the charge.
n

Silence only lowers his Initiative by 1, wouldnt he be Initiative 4 with it?

Yup! For some reason, I got it in my head that he was I: 4 base. Probably thinking deathshroud or something

I gotta be honest, I absolutely love the fluff for both mortarian and curze. Love pertuarbo's personality but he's just so expensive that It'd be hard to justify using him in 80% of my games. Mortarian does look like a beast, capable of shredding infantry, shooting and killing characters. The fact that he can buff his army in a minor way is helpful too. However, he doesn't seem to be very good when it comes to primarch 1v1, but the fact he has seven wounds means he would be assaulting turn 2 and he just needs to tie up superior fighters for 3 turns which he can do. I don't know how to quote or pm so this directed at the guy with the cool mortarian pp, how well does mortarian synergise with the Death Guard and are their any particular tactics for him?

Cassor the Damned wrote:
I gotta be honest, I absolutely love the fluff for both mortarian and curze. Love pertuarbo's personality but he's just so expensive that It'd be hard to justify using him in 80% of my games. Mortarian does look like a beast, capable of shredding infantry, shooting and killing characters. The fact that he can buff his army in a minor way is helpful too. However, he doesn't seem to be very good when it comes to primarch 1v1, but the fact he has seven wounds means he would be assaulting turn 2 and he just needs to tie up superior fighters for 3 turns which he can do. I don't know how to quote or pm so this directed at the guy with the cool mortarian pp, how well does mortarian synergise with the Death Guard and are their any particular tactics for him?

(To PM just click the "PM" button at the bottom of a post)

so the first thing to point out: IIRC against most every primarch, it actually takes longer than a game lasts to kill him. He generally won't kill the other primarch either, but this point is a constant with primarch duels. If you wanna be a little punk, run him in a large squad of death shroud, and have them accept the challenges of enemy primarchs, since every deathshroud is a character

I'd say amazing frag isn't minor, since it means that we can no more reliably deal with Mechanicum shenanigans than other armies Poison spam for days. Stack Subborn with our immunity to fear and pinning, and you have a very brave army

Like all primarchs, he synergizes extremely well with his legion, and there is a couple of ways to use him. With the Reaping ROW, you can give every character rad grenades, meaning that the first round of combat drops the enemy Toughness by one. Useing this, you can make DG an extremely deadly CC army. Mortarion should either be running with a squad or two kitted out for CC, or you should be having him warp everywhere, popping smaller squads in 1 round, or assassinating HQs w/ his ID scythe. The fact that he can pump phosphex grenades at an extended range also means that he can melt Terminator and infantry squads (literally ) AS WELL as make dangerous terrain to help slow down advancing enemies. To match the fluff, DG have a few "builds" that work well with him:
Foot slogging infantry (he helps here by giving you a mobile bullet sponge that generally WILL cripple a squad per turn)
Mass Termiantors (SUPER fluffy, and it's obvious how he fits in )
Poison/Chem/Phosphex spam (Helps in the same way as the infantry list, AS WELL as unlocking more poison weaponry and acting as another source of phosphex)
Dreadnought Spam (Basically acts like a MC version of a Dreadnought, but faster )

I gotta say, I'm really starting to lean towards Mortarian and Death Guard right now, the only thing for me is I'm not a fan of their colour scheme, do you think I could get away as painting them as the Dusk Raiders that they used to be while still using mortarian and saying that it was right before they chainged their armour colours?

Cassor the Damned wrote:
I gotta say, I'm really starting to lean towards Mortarian and Death Guard right now, the only thing for me is I'm not a fan of their colour scheme, do you think I could get away as painting them as the Dusk Raiders that they used to be while still using mortarian and saying that it was right before they chainged their armour colours?

Maybe? I dunno though, I like the colour scheme, of course, mine is a bit less white than other people's version :(

I actually like the white, it's just the fact that I used to collect 40k white scars and I don't really want to paint another white army, want to try some new colours. Thanks for all the advice man, you've been loads of help

If anyone has any input on the other primarchs feel free to give me some input as I've got another 2 weeks till my decision, looking like death guard so far though

Perturabo is definitely worth considering, his orbital bombardments, turn one reserve rolls and letting termis deepstrike are just a few of the buffs he provides. If you don't mind spending 1000 points on two models, he can also take a super heavy with a D weapon as a dedicated transport. He's also pretty handy in a fight, with or without the hammer.

Pertuarbo is definetly a beast at character killing, but iirc he can't handle hordes very well but my god the buffs he brings are awesome


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Does anyone have any experience running manus or vulkan and how they performed?

What? No love for Fulgrim? :( If you give him Fireblade instead of the Blade of Laer, he's WS8, S7, I8 (!!!), 5 base attacks... he gets more attacks for every point his initiative differs from his opponent in a challenge. AP2, Murderous Strike (Instant Death) on a 5+. Plus some other rather nice rules that really compliment the Emperor's Children special rules. I'm also biased at the moment as I'm considering an Emperor's Children army.

What about Russ? Those rules they released for him a couple weeks ago would surely merit inclusion in this list... as a punching bag until we see his real rules in February. LOL

I do agree with you about Fulgrim, and I love him and the EC pe heresy but i hate them during it and woulfdn't want to collect them

How does everyone feel about Ferrus as one of the toughest and the shootiest primarch?

Cassor the Damned wrote:
How does everyone feel about Ferrus as one of the toughest and the shootiest primarch?

IIRC, morty and vulkan are just as tough, and Mortarion is more shooty (marginally so) with infinite longer range phosphex bombs and an amazing pistol.

But Morty only has a 4++ save and they are both 3++ with FNP and doesn't Ferrus have like, an entire armoury of guns in his rucksack somehow?

Very true, mortarion will fall in a primarch vs primarch fight against a primarch with better saves (horus, vulkan, etc). That's why every primarch has a certain playstyle.

From what I've seen, ptubero is very shooty and tough, vulkan is very hard to kill and a beast with his hammer (primarch killer), kurze is a melee monster but more fragile, mortarion is tough but poor saves -only 3+ 4++ -(legion buffs though), and ferrus manus is average for survivability and cc ability. Lorgar... cool model but fragile and not worth his points.

The best of all those primarchs is vulkan. He has awesome saves, a hammer that will Id almost everything that swings... at... initiative!

It's almost worth buying the red books first. After reading the legion rules, primarch rules, and special unit rules, one can see how each legion and their primarch plays and their synergy.

Or you could play a primarch or legion just off looks (why I chose alpha legion and soh... gorgeous color schemes)!!

 More Dakka wrote:


Kurze is pretty solid too from a force multiplication stand point and he's the only jump infantry Primarch, so he can go with Raptors, Destroyers, Assault Marine blobs etc.

*Corax sits crying in a corner with linkin park blaring*

I actually thing corax has great potential as a MEQ muncher, especially with his pistols and s5 AP3 HOW

I also thought Ferrus was the toughest with s4 guns just not working on him as well as T7 with 7 wounds and a 2+/3++

Corax is the king of unit-killing and going solo, he rips through pretty much any type of non-vehicle squad and can give Gargantuan Creatures a run for their money. He does Hit and Run better than Kurze with his big charge bonuses and pistols.

Ferrus is the most durable against shooting but not the most durable overall. Vulkan has the same defensive stats as Ferrus but re-rolls failed It Will Not Die rolls which means he has a high chance of regenerating wounds each turn, Mortarion has the same rule and Poison immunity. Those two are overall the most durable Primarchs.

Also, Lorgar not worth his points? Umm, Lorgar Transfigured? The guy who picks his powers and manifests on a 3+ meaning he will pretty much permanently have re-rolls for saves/wound/hits? Lorgar Transfigured is easily one of the most powerful Primarchs and kills everyone except Horus and maybe one other in Primarch duels. He's an utter beast and a great buffer. Normal Lorgar is a pussy which makes sense for his price.

Vulkan's one of the best Primarchs in a strictly competitive sense alongside Alpharius and a few others. Alpharius has by far the best buff of any Primarch which is why he stands out. I wouldn't necessarily say Vulkan or Alpharius are the best overall though. For example. Horus is unstoppable unless your opponent has Destroyer weapons. The guy has no weakness, but he's understandably the most expensive.

You've also gotta consider that each Primarch has their strengths; Angron is the biggest damage dealer, Ferrus is the best for vehicle-heavy lists, Corax is the best unit-killer, Lorgar is currently the best psyker in the game on his own merits to my knowledge (i.e. no formation benefits), Perturabo is the best for Deep Strike lists (turn one reserves, Teleport Homer), etc. If you play to their strengths they can all do awesome work. Just stay the hell away from other Primarchs, it's just wasted points even if you know your Primarch should win the duel.

What I've come to realise over the past 3 days of my research into what Primarch and legion I should choose is this.

1) You shouldn't pick a primarch based upon whether they can kill another primarch, because it makes no difference as there is no way one primarch will be able to kill another in 5 turns.

2) A primarch should be based off of whether it can instant death a t4 model. You don't want to be caught up in more than one turn of combat with a Praetor. Because of this, S8 or Instant Death is necessary.

3) A primarch should have I6 or more, you don't want to strike at the same time as a Praetor and have him wound you right as you kill him. It's a little thing, but you never know.

4) A primarch should have some means of breaking a tarpit, whether it is an abundance of attacks like Corax and Angron, or a sweep attack like Mortarian or Vulkans S8 Ap3 blast with Dawnbringer. Your primarch is expensive, you dont want them tied up all game.

5) Your primarch should have some shooting capability that matches his stat line. You're paying alot of points for your primarch, and part of those points go on their BS5/6/7 stat, you want to be able to use it.

6) Price, your primarch must be able to make his points back. This is part of the reason I think Fulgrim is such an awesome primarch, the same goes for Lorgar, as they are both so cheap but can easily make points back

7) They have to give some form of buff, another reason for Fulgrim and Lorgar, as well as Alpharius and Pertuarbo.

Of course, there is exception to every rule and feel free to disagree with me

I believe Vulkan has the meanest Primarch weapon in the game. Dawnbringer ALWAYS strikes at Str10 (and is not effected by whatever Vulkan str is currently sitting at), swings at I5, and has concussive, armorbane, and instant death. Also, since Vulkan is a Salamander character then he can pay 5 points to make it a Mastercrafted weapon.

I play both Word Bearers and Iron Warriors. I've found I prefer Perturbo and he's excellent for his force multiplying functionality.

Though I sink a huge amount of points into him and his bodyguard, which is 5 Iron Circle. Comes in around 1.5k alone. The points aside they are a nigh unstoppable in combat. Last game the Iron Circle alone killed Cruze without even needing Pertarabo to swing.

An iron warriors are just plain great!

I've been toying around with actually running Perturabo more since the Primarch's Chosen ROW came out, here's a nasty combo:

Perturabo w/Forgebreaker

Primus Medicae w/Cataphracti
Close combat weapons to taste

10 Tyrant Siege Terminators
Fist or two

You can teleport this unit on T1 (add a Damocles Rhino for insurance on both the reinforcement roll and the scatter)

Perturabo gives the whole squad +1 BS with his Cognis Signum.

Use the Tyrant's Siege Master's Omniscope to split Perturabo's orbital bombardment off (it's actually noted that this does not count as a shooting attack on his rules), which is hard to miss with since he's BS7 now.

Then the Tyrants themselves can blast into basically anything, and they get Tankhunters from Perturabo.

They can't run to spread out so you better kill whatever is near you .

 More Dakka wrote:
I've been toying around with actually running Perturabo more since the Primarch's Chosen ROW came out, here's a nasty combo:

Perturabo w/Forgebreaker

Primus Medicae w/Cataphracti
Close combat weapons to taste

10 Tyrant Siege Terminators
Fist or two

You can teleport this unit on T1 (add a Damocles Rhino for insurance on both the reinforcement roll and the scatter)

Perturabo gives the whole squad +1 BS with his Cognis Signum.

Use the Tyrant's Siege Master's Omniscope to split Perturabo's orbital bombardment off (it's actually noted that this does not count as a shooting attack on his rules), which is hard to miss with since he's BS7 now.

Then the Tyrants themselves can blast into basically anything, and they get Tankhunters from Perturabo.

They can't run to spread out so you better kill whatever is near you .

That is nasty! I'd just worry about a counter punch. Any plasma tac suppoRT squads would chew through it very quickly. I also feel that quad mortars would make a mess of it due to not being abless to run and the sheer amount of saves they'd force you to take.

Screw primarchs, Anacharis Scoria does it better and cheaper while bringing along a whole bunch of gun laden toasters that hit harder than legionaries

I never understood why Scoria was made so ludicrously powerful.

His lore never portrayed him as much stronger than Draykavac or Calleb Decima.