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Made in gb
Raging-on-the-Inside Blood Angel Sergeant





Luton, England

The following is an alternative to the standard you-go, I-go way of playing 40K with each player taking it in turn to use their whole army. Instead there is a single turn that starts with a combined psychic phase followed by a phase where players take it in turn (kind of) to move, shoot and assault with a single unit followed by a phase where all the assaults are resolved.

There are various other things included as you will see, the main one being an initiative system stolen from the Bolt Action game system. Each player puts a number of tokens or dice equal to the number of units they have on the field into a combined dice bag then these tokens are drawn out randomly with each player getting to use a single unit every time one of their tokens is drawn from the bag. This leads to quite alot of tension as no one knows when each unit may get to act.

I've played this a couple of times and its worked really well. I've played it with four players and think it could happily accommodate more, we've used alternate deployment system where you can deploy anywhere more than 6" from another unit system as well as the normal deployment method, we haven't tried it using reserves as yet but I think it would hold up ok. Small points or even kill team work well with this, we've played it upto 500pts.

The Rules[u]

This game uses a single unit activation system with random initiative order and an altered turn order.

*Whenever multiple players or abilities are due to activate or take an action at the same time randomly determine who acts first.

Turn Order:
- Start of turn.
- Psykic phase.
- Unit Phase.
- Combat Phase.
- End of turn.

Start of Turn: All start of turn or start of movement phase actions or abilities are used. Players roll for their reserves and each unit that will arrive generates a token to be placed in the activation bag but does not arrive until the unit phase. These units can be choosen and activated by their player and they then arrive from reserves as normal counting as their movement.


The Psychic Phase: Roll a D6, each player gains that many warp charge points plus those for their psykers as normal. The players who have psykers randomly determine a psychic play order and then proceed to take it in turns attempting to cast a single power at a time.
When it comes to denying the witch the following rules apply.
If a single or multiple units belonging to only a single opposing player are targeted then only that units controlling player may make a deny attempt.
If no opposing units or units belonging to two or more opposing players are targeted then each opposing player has the opportunity to choose a number of dice to commit to the deny attempt. Once all opponents have committed their dice each rolls separately to see if they are successful in denying the power, they do not add their successes together.


The Unit Phase: Each player counts the number of units they have in play (IC’s and the units they are joined to count as a single unit) and takes a number of tokens (or dice) of a matching colour and places them in the activation bag (or sock if you don't have a suitable bag). Remember to add tokens for units arriving from reserve.
Then a single token is pulled out of the bag and the player whos token it is can activate a single unit of theirs on the table or due to arrive from reserve to do the following actions in order, after that unit is finished another token is pulled.(A unit cannot be activated more than once a turn).

Actions each unit can take in the unit phase:
- Move: Take a normal movement phase or deploy from reserve.
- Shoot: Take a normal shooting phase.
- Assault: Declare and make an assault move.
Due to the fact a unit is able to assault an lock in combat a unit that hasn;t had a chance to activate yet this turn the following rules apply.
If an assault is declared against a unit that hasn’t been activated as yet that unit may choose to do one of the following reactions: Move or Shoot.
If they choose to move they may immediately move D6” in a direction of their choice, if they choose to shoot they may overwatch at their normal ballistic skill, template weapons inflict D3 hits plus 1 for each 5 models (or part thereof) in the assaulting unit and blast weapons roll to hit with BS and inflict 2 or 3 hits depending on size of blast but cannot inflict more hits than there are models in the assaulting unit.
If a unit chooses shoot as a reaction then it may not do so again in the same turn and may only snapfire when it is activated, if a unit chooses move as a reaction then it may not do so again in the same turn and may only move half its usual distance when activated.
Units that are engaged in combat before they are activated can do nothing when activated unless they are a non-walker vehicle in which case they may take their turn as normal. If they move out of combat with a unit then all models that were in bases contact with it gain a single attack against it as it moves away.
Assault are resolved in the combat phase.

If you are playing with more than two players the following rules are used to shoot at units that are locked in combat.
Shooting into close combat: As a shooting action a player may fire into an assault that does not include any of their own units. To do this, nominate the target unit as normal. Having rolled to hit, you will need to determine which of the units engaged in the swirling melee are actually struck. Roll another dice for each hit, each dice that rolls 4+ results in a hit against the target unit, while any other result means the target's opponents are hit instead. If they have more than one opposing unit then randomly decide which is hit.
For template and blast weapons count the number of models under the markers and halve it to determine how many hits are inflicted.


The Combat Phase: Each assault is now resolved separately using the normal rules.
Only one challenge can be ongoing in a single combat, the character involved in the combat who has the highest initiative has first option to issue a challenge if they wish then the other characters in descending initiative order until one is accepted.


End of turn All end of turn abilities are resolved.



I hope that makes some kind of sense please let me know any feedback or comments.

The foll0wing is a link to a battle report on youtube where we used this ruleset and had a discussion about it afterwards:

This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2016/11/16 13:58:36


40,000pts
8,000pts
3,000pts
3,000pts
6,000pts
2,000pts
1,000pts
:deathwatch: 3,000pts
:Imperial Knights: 2,000pts
:Custodes: 4,000pts 
   
Made in us
Librarian with Freaky Familiar






I have seen this done before in 40k, we just call it bolt hammer, since both rules are written by the same guy, it actually works surprisingly well. You just treat each fight as a mini turn so for all rules that say, in the assault phase or what ever, it becomes pretty easy.

To many unpainted models to count. 
   
Made in us
Inspiring SDF-1 Bridge Officer





Mississippi

I use something similar in my Grim Darkness rewrite.

If you use the individual unit activation from Bolt Action, there isn't a need for phases anymore, just different orders/actions you give a unit.

There are a lot of rules in 40K that are tied to phases, though, that should be reviewed/modified with this change. Also, things like assaulting out of reserves/deepstrikes is a little less overpowering and some of those "alpha strike" preventing rules can be lifted or lightened.

Also, I have to say I like Bolt Action's "Overwatch" method better. You only get Overwatch if you haven't acted yet, but you get your full BS if you do. Coupled with BA's pin mechanic, it makes the Charge-Overwatch interactions very tactical, and tense.

It never ends well 
   
Made in gb
Lieutenant Colonel




Hi folks.
I think most players agree that the alternating player turn game mechanic does not allow for enough interaction in the game play of 40k.

I believe we can safely discount variable bound game turns for 40k ,as it would be a nightmare to implement well.

So we have the option of alternating unit activation, or alternating phases.

If you want to use alternating unit activation for 40k, , there are a few more issues to address , when compared to using alternating phases.

These are.

A) The rules are written with phases in mind.

B)The focus is directed at one particular unit at a time.So the balance between units has to be much better.

C)Units are still performing multiple actions unopposed, and so players will insist on a scheduling mechanic,(Blind draw, activation phases etc.) and/ or a reaction system added to the rules.

D)Some players of 40k are used to acting with their entire force , not 'faffing about with units' one at a time.


The issues with alternating phase turn are.

A)Actions are always performed in a set order.(Move then shoot then assault,)(But as most 40k players are used to this it is not a major problem IMO.)

B)It allows one force to all move or shoot or assault before the opponent gets to respond.
(But this can be over come by 'modeling simultaneous actions', where casualties are not removed until both sides have performed attacks, and players alternate moving units . )

So if you want to arrive at a more straight forward rule set,with much less hassle. I would suggest an alternating phase option.

Would you like to look at a hybrid 'alternating actions' system I have been trying to develop?


   
Made in us
Fixture of Dakka





Everyone Goes is certainly a valid game-balancing mechanism. However, we have several years of material written for I go U go.

What do we do with all those rules and related points costs?

"'players must agree how they are going to select their armies, and if any restrictions apply to the number and type of models they can use."

This is an actual rule in the actual rulebook. Quit whining about how you can imagine someone's army touching you in a bad place and play by the actual rules.


Freelance Ontologist

When people ask, "What's the point in understanding everything?" they've just disqualified themselves from using questions and should disappear in a puff of paradox. But they don't understand and just continue existing, which are also their only two strategies for life. 
   
Made in gb
Battleship Captain





Bristol (UK)

I've always preferred 'I move, you move, I shoot, you shoot, ETC''
Drawing dice always seemed odd to me
   
Made in us
Inspiring SDF-1 Bridge Officer





Mississippi

Having played Individual Initiative since at least 2E D&D, Bolt Action's dice drawing mechanism seems very natural to me.

It never ends well 
   
Made in us
Stalwart Ultramarine Tactical Marine





I've also got a draft system of rules written up that uses Bolt Action. We plan on playtesting very soon:

Tactical 40k is a substitute game turn method for Warhammer 40,000 where players alternate between units during the same game turn. Rather than have one player carry out the move, psychic, shoot, and assault phase for all units before the other player does the same, players take turns performing all phases for one unit at a time until all units on the table have done so. This creates a more dynamic, tactical, and unpredictable game that encourages more interaction and keeps players on their toes. Each game turn is divided into two rounds:

1) Command Round
At the start of the game turn, each player take count of how many units are currently on the table, fortifications with the ability to move (Tau Tidewall) or fire weapons independently (Sentry Guns), and how many units have the ability to come in from reserves on this game turn. Using this value, both players add their activation tokens into an opaque bag (be sure to use different colors for each player) and then mix them together.

2) Activation Round
After the tokens have been mixed together, simply draw one from the bag and hand the token to the player whose color corresponds with that token. The player then activates one of their units or fortifications either on the table or is able to come in from reserves by placing the token next to the unit. That unit may then perform all the standard phases of the Warhammer 40k rulebook, including Move, Cast Psychic Spells, Shoot, and Assault.

If the unit is arriving from reserves, roll to do so as stated in the Warhammer 40k rulebook. If the unit is able to come in, then they may perform the standard phases as normal. If not, their activation is forfeit.

Once a unit has completed all the phases, place the activation token next to its final position, draw a new token from the bag, and repeat the process until all able units have been activated. An activated unit cannot be activated again.

At the end of the Activation Round, the game turn ends and both players start a new game turn by repeating the Command Round.

Advanced Rules
Overwatch: A unit that has not been activated and is being charged performs overwtach at full BS. However, only units that have not been acted may perform overwatch.

Independent Characters:
If an Independent Character or multiple ICs are attached to a unit, both count as one unit for purposes of the Command Round and Activation Round. If IC’s choose to split from the unit at the end of their movement, they are still treated as part of the same activation for the subsequent phases. Assuming the IC and the detached units are still alive at the start of the next game turn, they would count as separate units for the purposes of the next Command Round and Activation Round.

Transports/Buildings and embarked units:
Units embarked at the start of the game turn and the transport/building itself count as one unit for purposes of the Command Round and counting the number of tokens to be added into the bag. When a transport or building with an embarked unit is activated, the activation counts for both units. This also applies for purposes of firing out of fire points. Thus if possible, a transport may move, disembark the unit, shoot with both units, and assault with the disembarked unit. Assuming the disembarked units are still alive at the start of the next game turn, they would count as separate units for the purposes of the next Command Round and the Activation Round.

Multiple Units Arriving From Reserves with One Reserve Roll
In the circumstance that multiple units may come together with a single reserve roll (such as the Space Marines Storm Wing), the group of units count as a single unit for purposes of the Command Round and Activation Round. Thus, the entire group may move, shoot, cast psychic powers, and assault as one unit and activation. Assuming the units are alive in the following game turns, they are then counted as separate units.

Leadership Tests and Regrouping:
To make Leadership checks a bigger factor in 40k, any leadership check required to be performed, such as taking a morale check for each unit that has taken 25% casualties in the shooting phase, must be done during each unit activation. Thus, a unit can suffer multiple morale or pinning checks for multiple shooting attacks in the same game turn. A unit that must test to regroup does so when they are activated or forced to.

Multiple Units in Assault and Successive Assaults:
In the circumstance in which two or more units already locked in assault are charged by a new unit or one of the locked units is activated, players treat the successive assault phase as a new combat in which all units involved are allowed to attack in melee as normally listed in the Warhammer 40k rulebook. Be sure to make note which units charged in order to grant charge bonuses if possible.

Interceptor and out of turn abilities:
If a player wishes to use units with the Interceptor special rule or similar abilities that act out of the standard 40k player turn, they must remove as many activation tokens from the bag as they wish to perform this ability and then activate the corresponding units. They may not choose more units than available tokens left.

Codex Specific Ammendments:
Tau - Coordinated Firepower:
The player may activate a unit with this ability and then declare which unactivated units are using this ability along with the activated unit. After wards, the player looks into the bag and removes the number of their tokens based on the number of additional units chosen for this ability. They may not choose more units than available tokens left. Activate the additional immediately and they may perform all actions of the standard phases as one group.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/12/11 05:59:00


 
   
Made in gb
Lieutenant Colonel




IF you want a sci fi version of Bolt Action Rick Preistley has written Beyond the Gates of Antares.

It may be easier to convert your 40k armies over to these rules, than try to convert 40k to B.A game turn?
   
Made in us
Librarian with Freaky Familiar






I might have said it before but you would be really suprised how easily 40k converts into bolt action.

Litereally just do the bag thing, and when you activate a unit, they go through the entire phase, move, powers, shooting, assault and the rules apply for what ever subphase you are in or what ever subphase you engage units in.

Works really good since he wrote the rules for both 40k and bolt action.

To many unpainted models to count. 
   
Made in us
Stalwart Ultramarine Tactical Marine





Well, it gets confusing when you apply things multiple units charging into the same combat because there's a chance they stay locked. I never looked at the full rules for Bolt Action, but from what I heard, assault is much more decisive so there's no chance of being locked. Also, you have certain abilities that require multiple units to be activated and how to take care of transports and the units embarked.
   
Made in us
Inspiring SDF-1 Bridge Officer





Mississippi

Transports and embarked units is pretty easy; BA handles it that each gets its own order dice. So, most likely you would move the transport up and some time later, disembark the passengers.

It would be helpful to also carry over the officer/commander ability that they can activate multiple units at once (I believe it's themselves and 2 additional units; you could then do a transport + passengers immediately that way).

Also, you're correct about BA handling close combat; it's all or nothing - the unit that loses the combat is immediately destroyed. In this regard, I think I prefer 40K's "staying around" after a round of close combat, but you would have to decide how to handle multiple charges into the same combat (personally, I'd let the defenders only attack one unit, but that's me)

It never ends well 
   
Made in gb
Agile Revenant Titan






Well, I really like the sounds of this

It would also help the game move away slightly from the whole '3 Knights and that's your army' thing that 40k does nowadays. It's a big risk as each turn you're much less likely to pull out one of your activation tokens, potentially letting the whole enemy army lay into your Knights before you can do anything. Would prompt a more balanced army building approach.

It'd also help mitigate some of the 'whoever goes first wins' match-ups, like Tau vs Dark Eldar.

 Stormonu wrote:

Also, you're correct about BA handling close combat; it's all or nothing - the unit that loses the combat is immediately destroyed. In this regard, I think I prefer 40K's "staying around" after a round of close combat, but you would have to decide how to handle multiple charges into the same combat (personally, I'd let the defenders only attack one unit, but that's me)


I like the idea of the defending unit only being able to attack the unit that charged first. Would give a nice little buff to CC in general, and prompt some interesting tactics and maneuvering.

Check out may pan-Eldar projects http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/702683.page

Also my Rogue Trader-esque spaceport factions http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/709686.page

Oh, and I've come up with a semi-expanded Shadow War idea and need some feedback! https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/726439.page

Lastly I contribute to a blog too! http://objectivesecured.blogspot.co.uk/ Check it out! It's not just me  
   
Made in gb
Lieutenant Colonel




@Backspacehacker.
The random dice draw game turn for unit activation works fine in a game written specifically for it.(EG B.A and BtGoA.)

However, as with all alternating unit activation game turns it focuses the players on the abilities of single units.

40k units are hideously unbalanced at present, and just adding random unit activation would show up the awful ballance issues even more!

If you are just rolling dice to see what happens and game balance is not at all important, then just plonking the B.A game turn on top of a 40k game written with specific phase structures in mind, is probably good enough for you.

However, if you want a tactically richer game play, and a much less complicated rule set.Alternating phases with simultaneous resolution is the best option.
(More 40k fixed , than a BtGoA clone.)

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/12/14 16:48:53


 
   
 
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