Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

I've been having some real trouble understanding the logic behind one of the rules of the Slaughtercult: when you choose a blood tithe reward at the start of your turn, you can choose a lesser one to additionally effect the Slaughtercult. As an idea, this is awesome, but in execution it is actually not very useful. The main problem is that a majority units in the Slaughtercult don't really need or benefit from the additional attack or the FNP or both together (and who really needs the other two unnamed rewards). Sure, it can be fun to doublebuff your HQ unit, and possessed become even crazier buffed this way, but Bloodletters are typically not going to be doing much other than camping objectives. Spending points on Berzerkers is a waste, and Marines aren't much better being stuck in a limbo of not being cheap and not being able to carry a heavy weapon at base unit size. Dump enough points into Marines and you have an OK unit, but they don't hold objectives any better than Bloodletters already do (not to mention you could get two MSU Bloodletter units for the cost of a marine unit + Rhino before upgrades). Chaos spawn with the buffs could be scary as well but since you're either taking a single one or an escort of four it becomes a tossup. Cultists don't even deserve a sentence in this paragraph since buffing them is at complete odds with what you want them to be doing, which is dying asap.

So you're left with a rule that should be significant, but you don't actually have the options to fully utilize it.

This is really more of a rant about how pointless it is to take Marines or Berzerkers over Bloodletters in the Slaughtercult since they jacked up the unit size so much. And how it is somewhat pointless to take cultists since your entire army will be on the enemy's side of the board turn two and they'll be sitting on your home objectives waiting to be pushed off them. I understand that FNP and +1 attack are awesome and potentially game winning if you keep them up, I'm not arguing that. I just dislike how pigeonholed KDK feels because of a small increase to unit size in a MSU army.

Welcome to the problem with Daemonkin. Other than the Gorepack, none or the formations are particularly good and you're better off attaching said Gorepack to a CAD instead.

Considering that the only bonus you get for the Blood Host is a free point towards the Tithe...yeah no.

Really, the best things you can say about it are it let's you keep FNP on them while summoning something, or lets your Spawn get FNP and FC, which admittedly can be useful for tank-hunting.

You're right on the money. Been playing Daemonkin since it came out since I love Khorne and assaulting and I've slowly been coming to the realization that there's nothing really GOOD about the Slaughtercult which then leads to the conclusion that the Blood Host Detachment is not better than a CAD.

Which just leads to sadness and drinking.

Cultists can actually do a surprising amount of damage when they have Furious Charge (which you get to pick up for 'free' with the Slaughtercult, whilst still getting the FNP across the rest of your army). That's 4 Attacks each on the charge at S4 which basically makes them Ork Boy equivalents. I find it can often put an opponent into a no-win tactics - they either shoot them (and give you a Blood Point for other stuff) or they leave them alone and get charged by a horde of angry little dudes.

 GoonBandito wrote:
Cultists can actually do a surprising amount of damage when they have Furious Charge (which you get to pick up for 'free' with the Slaughtercult, whilst still getting the FNP across the rest of your army). That's 4 Attacks each on the charge at S4 which basically makes them Ork Boy equivalents. I find it can often put an opponent into a no-win tactics - they either shoot them (and give you a Blood Point for other stuff) or they leave them alone and get charged by a horde of angry little dudes.

The issue with that is that you won't see a "horde" of them in a KDK army, at least not one that's trying to be at the same level as other armies. I don't want to knock cultists. I've had cultists destroy deep striking terminators, knock down MC from the sky, and punch HQs in the face. Cultists are that unit you don't really expect to do anything that suddenly becomes game changing out of nowhere because the dice gods want a quick laugh. But any situation where they are going into combat I would rather have Bloodletters, No shooting, but they'll hold something down while the beatstick rolls up on it.

 MagicJuggler wrote:
Welcome to the problem with Daemonkin. Other than the Gorepack, none or the formations are particularly good and you're better off attaching said Gorepack to a CAD instead.

Considering that the only bonus you get for the Blood Host is a free point towards the Tithe...yeah no.

Really, the best things you can say about it are it let's you keep FNP on them while summoning something, or lets your Spawn get FNP and FC, which admittedly can be useful for tank-hunting.

The Terminators get a cool bonus from the formation but the issue is that you need Bloodcrushers.

A weaker version of Rampage basically.

And the fact the Bloodstorm has mandatory Warp Talons doesn't help. Ooh, their Hammer of Wrath Hits get +1 strength...wherever all that to include a Heldrake in a Blood Host!

 andysonic1 wrote:
I've been having some real trouble understanding the logic behind one of the rules of the Slaughtercult: when you choose a blood tithe reward at the start of your turn, you can choose a lesser one to additionally effect the Slaughtercult. As an idea, this is awesome, but in execution it is actually not very useful. The main problem is that a majority units in the Slaughtercult don't really need or benefit from the additional attack or the FNP or both together (and who really needs the other two unnamed rewards). Sure, it can be fun to doublebuff your HQ unit, and possessed become even crazier buffed this way, but Bloodletters are typically not going to be doing much other than camping objectives. Spending points on Berzerkers is a waste, and Marines aren't much better being stuck in a limbo of not being cheap and not being able to carry a heavy weapon at base unit size. Dump enough points into Marines and you have an OK unit, but they don't hold objectives any better than Bloodletters already do (not to mention you could get two MSU Bloodletter units for the cost of a marine unit + Rhino before upgrades). Chaos spawn with the buffs could be scary as well but since you're either taking a single one or an escort of four it becomes a tossup. Cultists don't even deserve a sentence in this paragraph since buffing them is at complete odds with what you want them to be doing, which is dying asap.

The second bonus reward isn't always useful depending upon how many tithe points you have but the Blood Host detachment really helps with this by giving you the free point at the start of your turn.

I'm not sure how you don't find FNP to be a benefit; it's one of the best rewards in the tithe system. Why are you just camping objectives with bloodletters? They don't have guns but have AP3 swords and have twice the amount of attacks when charging something. I find it's far better to DS them and threaten something.

Agreed that KD berzerkers and marines remain a poor choice either in the Slaughtercult or a CAD.

Spawn are great as single model units in a KD list and you can take 2 in a Slaughtercult. With no save as standard the FNP really helps these guys.

Khorne cultists are often underestimated imo, even a min unit of 8 can pump out a lot of attacks on the charge. If they don't make it to combat it's no big deal and more blood tithe. And if you really want them to die asap there's also the option to suicide them if they get shot up and fail a morale test.

I find the main drawbacks of the Blood Host and Slaughtercult as opposed to a CAD is having to take the possessed, which can be ok but are ultimately a tax, and not being able to easily fit in Heldrakes and soul grinders.

Heldrakes are indeed impractical in a Blood Host due to the aforementioned Warp Talon tax, but you can take a Soul Grinder as an auxiliary (War Engine) choice. Soul Grinders are awesome in KDK!

Just take the Heldrake formation from the CSM supplement. Yeah you need another book but who cares when you get them for no tax model wise.

The only good use for the blood host i've found is to abuse the War Engine option to take as many Maulerfiends and Soul Grinders you want. And even then you just make the Slaughtercult as cheap as possible

the fact the Bloodstorm has mandatory Warp Talons doesn't help. Ooh, their Hammer of Wrath Hits get +1 strength...wherever all that to include a Heldrake in a Blood Host!

the got furios charge as well because the are demons..

so they got str 6 on chargein blood storm formation

 ZergSmasher wrote:
Heldrakes are indeed impractical in a Blood Host due to the aforementioned Warp Talon tax, but you can take a Soul Grinder as an auxiliary (War Engine) choice. Soul Grinders are awesome in KDK!

Oops, forgot about the War Engine slot, good point. Soul grinders are indeed awesome units. They detract slightly from the KD MSU approach but often still worth it. With the new Daemon Forgehost formation I usually prefer that if I'm going with multiple grinders as it really makes a difference with their BS/WS3.

use a cad with 2*8 cultist and a herald there you go 3 free fast slots + slaugthercult

I'm unimpressed with soul grinders. So many points for a meh battle cannon. And they're quite slow, so don't go too well with dogs and spawns.

 koooaei wrote:
I'm unimpressed with soul grinders. So many points for a meh battle cannon. And they're quite slow, so don't go too well with dogs and spawns.

The armor 13 and 4 hull points make them a very durable unit. They do a valuable job on camping backfield objectives and can hurt a variety of targets. Additionally they can be fun to deep strike behind an enemy's lines. I've played around with the torrent flamer, but more and more I use them I either run them naked or with the battlecannon upgrade.

Of my own topic, but I've gotten so bored of my current half-decent list of Gorepack + CAD (lord + D-thirster + 2 letters + 2 heldrakes + 2 maulers) that I'm going to whip out my Kharybdis and try and make that work. It won't, but I'm going to try anyways since it's usually pretty good for a laugh.

 Cptn_Snuggles wrote:

 koooaei wrote:
I'm unimpressed with soul grinders. So many points for a meh battle cannon. And they're quite slow, so don't go too well with dogs and spawns.

The armor 13 and 4 hull points make them a very durable unit. They do a valuable job on camping backfield objectives and can hurt a variety of targets. Additionally they can be fun to deep strike behind an enemy's lines. I've played around with the torrent flamer, but more and more I use them I either run them naked or with the battlecannon upgrade.

Yeah, they looked great on paper but when i actually ran 4 of them i quickly downgraded to 2 and even than i'm thinking of dumping them in favor of either maulerfiends or just more msu stuff.

 andysonic1 wrote:
Of my own topic, but I've gotten so bored of my current half-decent list of Gorepack + CAD (lord + D-thirster + 2 letters + 2 heldrakes + 2 maulers) that I'm going to whip out my Kharybdis and try and make that work. It won't, but I'm going to try anyways since it's usually pretty good for a laugh.

Try out crushers, a pair of skullcannons and a Kytan (if you have the coin). The crushers and cannons have pretty legit synergy (especially with the dreadskulls). Every once in a while you'll get lucky and double out an IC like a Libby or chaplain who blows their power armor save. The crushers also provide a decent bodyguard for your warlord that won't hinder his movement and won't get bolstered to death turn 1,I'm Ike the dogs and bikes tend to.