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Sorry if this has already been asked I tried searching for it but couldn't find anything. I just finished up a game against a Space Wolf player. In the game he charged one of my troops with one of the Space Wolf equivalent to a Tac squad, Gray Hunters or Blood Claws I forget. When counting out his attacks he said he got an extra one because each of the models in his unit were equipped with a bolter, bolt pistol, and chainsword and because the bolt pistol and chainsword were both single handed it met the rule for an additional attack. I happen to also play Raven Guard and I know the default Tac Squad doesn't allow a load out like that so I challenged him on the rule. His response was it was a special thing for that particular Space Wolf troop. I wasn't satisfied so we looked up the rule for Number of Attacks and it only says "Engaged models with two single-handed weapons get +1 attack." So I let him have the extra attack. Two questions:

1. Is having 3 weapons actually a possible loadout for one of the Space Wolf squads? (I did try and look this up online but couldn't find a definitive answer.)
2. If, for whatever reason, a model can have a single two handed weapon and two one handed weapons would the unit gain the +1 attack?

Thanks!

So I know Chaos Space Marines are capable of taking the bolter, bolt pistol and close combat weapon? It's not implausible that Grey Hunters can be taken with all 3 weapons.

1) In theory Grey Hunter squads could? I don't have wolves codex on me so can't say definitively?

2) I'm pretty sure this can't occur. all two handed weapons are CCWs, and I'm pretty sure you can only swap the Pistol or the Chainsword for a melee weapon, not convinced there's an option to swap the bolter?

-could be wrong, just my initial thoughts?
GamerGuy

Hi, grey hunters come with bolter + bolt pistol. If you pay a couple of extra points you get a ccw (chainsword) in each model. So the model has now three weapons (bolter, ccw and bolt pistol)
So he has 1 base attack + 1 from pistol and ccw + 1 from charge/counterattack.

Of course, they can't charge in the same turn they fire their bolters, which sometimes is forgotten

You always gain +1 attack for having two close combat weapons, so long as special rules like Specialist Weapin or Two-Handed don't come into it.

You would have been better off for checking the Space Wolf codex to see what the loadout on the squads was for checking whether they can take 2 close combat weapons, of which pistols count as.

Thanks everyone! Yea, I should have asked to see his Codex to verify the unit loadout. I probably still would have had the question about having a bolter along with Two 1 handed weapons. Regardless it was late and I was tired, losing, and after having 7 drop pods land first turn questioning a lot of rules so I didn't just get tabled . I'm glad we ended up using the correct ruling in the end. I guess we're to assume that because a bolter doesn't have the "Two Handed" or "Specialist Weapon" special rule it can be slung or holstered and two CCWs equipped, assuming the bolter wasn't used that turn.

The bolter is not a "two-handed weapon" for close combat purposes. In fact it's not a weapon at all in close combat and is ignored.


It used to be the case that some codexes placed additional restrictions on what wargear a model could purchase, based on "hands available" but some time during fourth edition this stopped, because it was silly.

Also be aware if you charge him he can use his bolt guns rapid fire as overwatch and switch to pistol and chainsword for the close combat afterwards.

In the olden days, Space Wolves had an ability called True Grit, where they could use their bolter with 1 hand and swing their chainsword with the other, so they always got 2 attacks. But I believe they lost the +1 bonus for charging.

I just wanna note that Space Wolves can be armed with a Bolter, Bolt Pistol and Chainsword specifically to gain +1 attack (so that would be 3 attacks on the charge with Grey Hunters, a pants-browningly 4 with Blood Claws due to rage), but that loadout isn't stock and cost some points (which can add up). It use to be stock, but not anymore.

I'd also like to point out most people overlook this, as if Wolves really want to tear face, they have Thunder Wolves and Wulfen.

Also, Chaos Marines can do the same thing, for what it's worth. They can replace the Bolter with a Chainsword for free, or keep the Bolter and buy a Chainsword, giving them Bolter, Bolt Pistol and Chainsword, for an extra 2 points a model.

In order

1. Yes, they frequently do have 3 weapons

2. and yes they get the +1 attack from having two CCW's.

Side note, If they ever charge you they're playing wrong.

 Freya wrote:
In order

1. Yes, they frequently do have 3 weapons

2. and yes they get the +1 attack from having two CCW's.

Side note, If they ever charge you they're playing wrong.

Not necessarily. They are denying you your bonus Attack from the Charge. Too much depends on the specifics of the scenario, and they may be really bad at rolling 6s for Overwatch. For example, Charging Tau that are all bunched up would be playing wrong, Charging Hormagaunts would be a strategic decision to remove what advantage they have. Numbers in play would also define the wisdom of this tact.

 Charistoph wrote:

 Freya wrote:
In order

1. Yes, they frequently do have 3 weapons

2. and yes they get the +1 attack from having two CCW's.

Side note, If they ever charge you they're playing wrong.

Not necessarily. They are denying you your bonus Attack from the Charge. Too much depends on the specifics of the scenario, and they may be really bad at rolling 6s for Overwatch. For example, Charging Tau that are all bunched up would be playing wrong, Charging Hormagaunts would be a strategic decision to remove what advantage they have. Numbers in play would also define the wisdom of this tact.

Well... I was going off of the fact that he said he's playing Raven guard... But yeah if he was playing Tyranid or something with extra bonus attacks on a charge (on top of the 1) then that would have been a different answer. Strictly speaking, GH should not charge, they should shoot.

Either way, they can be kitted with 3 weapons. It's a waste of points usually but they are like csm in that respect