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Ok been out of the loop for a while and recently found about the cults being back on the table top after so long.

So I just wanted to ask about a Cults longevity, is there a way for Cult characters to survive the coming of the hive fleet or exist long enough to have a small empire?

The only way I could personally think of was through the Magus. The Patriarch falls under Hivemind's sway as soon as the ships come close enough and the Primus play their part but it seems they cannot truly lead the cult as effectively as the other two can solo.

The Ghosar Quintus Cult in the game Deathwatch: Overkill probably started with an arrival of Purestrain genestealer on the mining asteroid 1500 years before the Cult grew large and powerful enough to attract Imperial attention.

Only when the Hive Fleet approaches is the Genestealer psychic beacon triggered. The events that follow are not so good for Cult longevity. Maybe some members are off world, and survive. In any case, it could be many decades before the Hive fleet approaches some far flung cults. if at all. The mythos says the Cult is unaware of its fate. So, its not going to go looking f or the Hive Fleet.

A human world can definitely be under complete cult control for a long time.

If the cult succeeds in taking control of a planet without alerting the Inquisition or the Arbites or similar, then they will simply light their psychic beacon, wait for the Tyranids and start to spread to other planets if possible. This taking control does not at all need to be through force of arms, but can be through infecting and inbreeding an already ruling family or by putting infected members of the cult on leading positions through more standardised political means. These methods of course vary between ritual duels to winning an honest vote in a representative democracy. After all, as long as the Imperium recieves its tithes they are quite content with letting each planet manage itself as they see fit. And as we know, mindcontrolling the population is a good way to increase productivity _and_ rooting out rogue psykers that needs to go on the Black Ships. And having control over the genetics of the population should help keeing the number of chaos mutants under control as well.

So this is yet another great example of the moral grey scales and satire over fascism in 40k. A planet controlled by the Genestealer Cult would be an exemplary member of the Imperium! :-D

I think the backstory of Shield of Baal: Deathstorm is very interesting. There the ruling couple gives birth to a purestrain genestealer that grows into something very similar to a Patriarch. It is heavily suggested (if not said outright, I don't remember) that the patriarch is allowed a great deal of freedom on Cryptos because of it's familys ties.

Now I want to write an RPG-campaign where the main characters are senior members of the cult that are responsible for cooperating with the (not infected) Arbites in hunting down Rogue Psykers and hand them over to the Black Ships. That would be very interesting.

To answer your second question I started writing an answer that grw into a short story about a Magus who survives the Tyranids Devouring his planet. It turned out too long and laborous for this answer. But I'll post a link here when it's done :-)

Mellon wrote:
A human world can definitely be under complete cult control for a long time.

If the cult succeeds in taking control of a planet without alerting the Inquisition or the Arbites or similar, then they will simply light their psychic beacon, wait for the Tyranids and start to spread to other planets if possible. This taking control does not at all need to be through force of arms, but can be through infecting and inbreeding an already ruling family or by putting infected members of the cult on leading positions through more standardised political means. These methods of course vary between ritual duels to winning an honest vote in a representative democracy. After all, as long as the Imperium recieves its tithes they are quite content with letting each planet manage itself as they see fit. And as we know, mindcontrolling the population is a good way to increase productivity _and_ rooting out rogue psykers that needs to go on the Black Ships. And having control over the genetics of the population should help keeing the number of chaos mutants under control as well.

So this is yet another great example of the moral grey scales and satire over fascism in 40k. A planet controlled by the Genestealer Cult would be an exemplary member of the Imperium! :-D

I think the backstory of Shield of Baal: Deathstorm is very interesting. There the ruling couple gives birth to a purestrain genestealer that grows into something very similar to a Patriarch. It is heavily suggested (if not said outright, I don't remember) that the patriarch is allowed a great deal of freedom on Cryptos because of it's familys ties.

Now I want to write an RPG-campaign where the main characters are senior members of the cult that are responsible for cooperating with the (not infected) Arbites in hunting down Rogue Psykers and hand them over to the Black Ships. That would be very interesting.

To answer your second question I started writing an answer that grw into a short story about a Magus who survives the Tyranids Devouring his planet. It turned out too long and laborous for this answer. But I'll post a link here when it's done :-)

I look forward to it.

Interesting I'd say that given that GS Cults are only Allies of Convenience with 'nids, if they did somehow discover the psychic beacon drawing the 'nids it could lead to some very interesting changes in how they operate.

I'm thinking a generation of self-interested Magos' culling later generations to prevent a beacon being formed...

 Ynneadwraith wrote:
Interesting I'd say that given that GS Cults are only Allies of Convenience with 'nids, if they did somehow discover the psychic beacon drawing the 'nids it could lead to some very interesting changes in how they operate.

I'm thinking a generation of self-interested Magos' culling later generations to prevent a beacon being formed...

They already know it draws the nids, they simply believe that they will somehow "ascend" while everyone else is eaten.

Ah I see. In which case you'd have to twist it slightly to have a Magos that survives to see that this 'ascension' means being melted down into goo and siphoned up into the hive fleet.

Would make for quite an interesting story that

Maybe you could make the magos being captured by a kill-team / an inquisitor, during the uprising, and somehow escaping, after having saw the fate of his wolrd.
Or something like that

 godardc wrote:
Maybe you could make the magos being captured by a kill-team / an inquisitor, during the uprising, and somehow escaping, after having saw the fate of his wolrd.
Or something like that

Yeah that'd be a great idea not only is he on the run from the Tyranids, but also from the Inquisition as well

I remember seeing somewhere (in the Codex, I think) that the Primus acts as a kind of "war leader" for the Cult who leads their forces to invade other worlds when the Hive Fleet gets close, so when the Hive Fleet shows up, he circles the wagons and pisses off elsewhere. No reason a Magus or even a Patriarch couldn't/ wouldn't go with him.

I also thought that all "brood" members were essentially Tyranids once the Hive Fleet shows up - they're part of the Hive Mind so they don't really care about being eaten any more than Gaunts and Carnifexes do, it's just the non-brood human followers (i.e. the allied PDFs, the unwitting aristocracy, etc.) who are a bit miffed by it all. There seems to be a lot of fluff about the Neophytes, Acolytes and Metamorphs throwing their lives away for the good of the Cult, and an instance or two of ICs doing it as well.

Gotcha, although my thinking was that you could do something interesting with the fact that Cults are 'allies of convenience' with Tyranids.

Undoubtedly that's a game mechanics thing, but if you wanted it to you could imply that the Cults aren't exactly pleased with being devoured alive by the 'nids

 Ynneadwraith wrote:
Gotcha, although my thinking was that you could do something interesting with the fact that Cults are 'allies of convenience' with Tyranids.

Undoubtedly that's a game mechanics thing, but if you wanted it to you could imply that the Cults aren't exactly pleased with being devoured alive by the 'nids

In fairness I've seen stuff in the Codex to suggest that's the case. There's a couple of fluff stories about Cultists being killed by Purestrains in the aftermath of the Hive Fleet's arrival - the First Curse flavour text for one, and a sidebar story where some clown runs up to hug a Genestealer once the PDF has been finally defeated - but as far as I can see it's never explicitly stated whether these "cultists" are the less Nid-like brood dudes (i.e. Hybrids, Maguses, Primuses etc) or whether they're the human hangers-on who gravitate to the Cult because it helps them throw off the shackles of the Imperium etc. It's pretty ambiguous and it could easily be either, especially with the AoC thing.

It also says somewhere at the front of the Codex that while there's a general pattern to Cult structures and progressions to invasion, there are also exceptions. Which means it could well be either or both.

 BBAP wrote:
and a sidebar story where some clown runs up to hug a Genestealer

That is gorram hilarious.

I'm not even joking. The "rebels" finally throw down the last stronghold of the Imperial forces or something and Cultists are running all over the place delirious with joy, and one of them sees a Genestealer and is all like "Come my son and give me a big hug on this momentous occasion!"

Then the inevitable occurs.

 BBAP wrote:
I'm not even joking. The "rebels" finally throw down the last stronghold of the Imperial forces or something and Cultists are running all over the place delirious with joy, and one of them sees a Genestealer and is all like "Come my son and give me a big hug on this momentous occasion!"

Then the inevitable occurs.

I think it was also his biological son.