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GW, I can no longer play Glorious Goff mobs against SW now.

A little background info; my friend has 10 TWC and 10 Wulfen, half of each with SS+TH and a wolf lord on a TW. As I like playing goffs, I tend to bring too many boyz and not enough dakka. However I only tend to see 5-10 Wulfen and no TWC.

As it is nearing christmass, I'd like your guys help on expanding my orks. Currently I have 6 lootas that I am looking to expand into 15. I was also thinking of getting some plasma mek guns (probably kitbash) a Gorkanaught and a kill bursta (dowel and a mk3 grant airfix model). Finally, I have 2 ork planes I'm kitbashing from spare parts after I got a dakkajet.

Tl;dr Wulfen broken.

You kill wolfen by shooting them (preferable with S8 because Instant Death)

Use 90 tankbustas.

As others have said, ranged S8 is your friend. Take kustom mega kannonz (especially now that they've ruled that you can re-roll gets hot rolls of 1 with ammo runts now), even normal kannonz will do in conjunction with tankbustas. Make sure all the guns on your transports are rokkit launchas. This way your army is saturated enough with S8 AP3 that the wulfen should be reasonably whittled down by the time they reach your lines.

If you can, you might try throwing grots at the wulfen. Don't charge them, just surround the puppies with grots and fence them in. Don't let them move! In any turn that they charge grots, you win.

Ally in pink horrors. They are ultimate tarpits now.

As for pure orks there's not much you can really do to actually fight them. Yep, you can spend like 2k $ to get yourself all the kmk, sag meks and stompas and than he gets 3 models in librarian conclave and completely invalidates all your shooting.

The way to deal with them as pure orks is to not deal with them. Max msu. Run around, shoot sluggas and score. Get in the way, minimise the amount of units he can kill. Don't charge his melee stuff. Just die, score and pray for good maelstorm cards.

As long as he has no wiards, it can still be done (somewhat) with shooting if you invest heavilly but not if he uses magic.

You were using a crap ton of Tank Bustaz in the first place right?

That's a cheap source of S8 right there. I don't know what you have in terms of artillery though. Is any of that S8?

It depends on how he's using them. Statistically speaking, 30 Shootas, 10 Rokkits, or 15 Lootas all amount to one dead TH/SS Wulfen per shooting phase. Any other kind of Wulfen, and the damage output from Rokkits and Lootas will triple.
You can probably deal with their Thunder Hammers in close combat with regular boys (20 Shoota Boys on the charge will get 6 wounds, 2 otherwise,) but you don't want to fight the Lightning Claw variants if it can be avoided, and you should only fight the axes if you can charge. (To get the charge, btw, you're going to need some sacrificial lambs to tie him up.)

However, as pointed out above, all this goes out the window if he has a Librarius conclave. Any number of Psychic Powers can easily double their durability, either through making them immune to Instant Death, increasing their Toughness to 5, making their invuln a 2+, giving rerolls on saves, or a couple others I'm sure I could think of, given a few seconds. Invisibility makes them especially impossible to kill in melee, though it's not especially bad against your shooting. Most of these options will double the amount of firepower needed to kill Wulfen, which isn't insurmountable, but is certainly difficult. (And these powers can stack if he's lucky. 6s to hit, T5, 2+ Rerollable invulns, and 4+ FNP with Eternal Warrior is potentially possible, if he gets all the right powers off.)

Read the new FAQ, specifically how to tank shock. Its now possible to just drive over hard-to-kill units and "remove" the models in a S: D-lite sort of way.

Its not too hard to do if you have lots of tanks, and he is running at you (which should be the case)

And what's gona stop him from death-or-gloring your trukks left and right?

The fact that, even with a TH/SS, he only has around a 65% chance of stunning, immobilizing, or blowing up the Trukk? And the Trukk is cheaper than his Wulfen?

Technically, he needs to stop just one truck out of many to avoid being crunched. But it is possible indeed.

He's str 4 base, right? So, 2/3 to pen, 2/3 to stop as shakes and weapon destroys don't do that - and than you have 1/6 to turn it into a glance, so provided the truck is not damaged beforehand or at least not at 1 hp - cause otherwise, it'd be 1/6 chance to not die - that's only around 37% chance to stop a trukk. And 63% to get crunched. Neat.

So, you might be right. Still, a crunching tankshock is explictly hard to perform on the tabletop - especially against units that are large enough and tough enough they can have almost any coherency they want - no need to spread out too much yet no need to bunch up too much. And don't forget, you can't disembark the turn you want to tankshock and you can only pivot and move straight forward. So, if there's something sitting inside your truck, it's gona be lost instantly the moment they surround your tankshocking vehicle afterewards.

It's still possible, but it's hard to perform and also depends on an opponent either not knowing enough about tankshockng or miscalculating. Remember, you can only tankshock in the movement phase. So, it also needs a pre-setup and the enemy being allready close enough for you to be able to cut off coherency retreats.

S5 base, actually.

 JNAProductions wrote:
S5 base, actually.

really? eh, ok, so, they strike as s10. Still 44.55555555555555555555% chance to not stop a trukk.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
man, who allowed them taking thunderhammers and shields with this profile.

Fisheyes wrote:
Read the new FAQ, specifically how to tank shock. Its now possible to just drive over hard-to-kill units and "remove" the models in a S: D-lite sort of way.

how... ? I have read the FAQ and it seems that nothing has changed. You still need to box in etc to kill something. Just running over a unit in the open will only result in them all moving out of the way.

Tank shock FAQ

 oldzoggy wrote:

Fisheyes wrote:
Read the new FAQ, specifically how to tank shock. Its now possible to just drive over hard-to-kill units and "remove" the models in a S: D-lite sort of way.

how... ? I have read the FAQ and it seems that nothing has changed. You still need to box in etc to kill something. Just running over a unit in the open will only result in them all moving out of the way.

Pick up only those models actively displaced by the
Tank Shock...

Automatically Appended Next Post:
In this sense, ork transports are great for tankshocks because they're pretty long and leave less space for forming back in coherency.

Also note that a model can't be in coherency unless the whole unit is in coherency. So, the displaced models can't just move aside and call it a day - they have to try to restore the unit's coherency and if they can't they're removed.

But is there ever going to be a situation of a unit placed in a regular ( non conga line ) pattern that can be forced to be out of coherency ? /
[edit got it]
You can now kill the entire unit instead of parts of it. But is there any way to enforce it outside a 3 sided box + a tank ?

You can't kill the entire unit. There is always gona be at least 1 model left. And yep, it's possible to do to a unit right in the open if the models are spread out enough to not be able to restore coherency after the tankshock.

I played against wulfen as ork only once and it has gone fairly easily. I took a mob of 15 shootaz, 1 Battle wagon, lootaz inside and a mek to give them invulns and also a screen of burna boyz.

First a squad of wulfen were shredded by the shootaz and burnas and other combined dakka
Then I got charged putting wounds on his wolf cav with warlord and finishing off after a turn with no particularly good rolls. But the second unit of wulfen tore up my left flank and finally were handled by an allied sorcerer and some tankbustaz.
Lootaz help and mass S5-S8 dakka helps.

take some burna boyz in BW or some comby scorchaz, ,skorcha buggies could do too or looted wagon just remember shoot melee units fight shooty units !

Statistically, 15 shootaboyz will deal 1.11 wounds vs 3++ and 1.66 vs 4+, 15 Lootas deal 5.55 wounds without armor/cover saves and 1.85 with 3++. It's gona be hard to get sideshots on wolfen to kill models without shields and they could also get cover.

So, between 15 shootaboyz and 15 lootas it's around 2-3 dead wolfen. You need a lot of burnas to do the job after that.

However, if he doesn't roll good enough on his "curse" and runs and has no magic buffs, you could potentially thin the unit down from afar across a couple turns.

A few things to think about against Wulfen.
1. If they have Storm Shields leading in the front then use your mass shooting AP6/5 type weapons first to throw dice against the invulns until they go down and then use your AP4 or better shooting against the squishy non invuln save guys. Rokkits are your best weapon against wulfen.
2. Unless the Wulfen has that grenade launcher then charging through terrain makes them go down to I1. Lets you get a lot of swings in first with boyz.
3. The Wulfen's axe weapon only swings at I5 on the charge so if they get charged they swing at I1. Also Wulfen have rage so if they get charged then they don't swing as much (counter attack gives +1 attack but not the rage's +2). They get to swing after they die but if they are killing boyz then its a fairly decent trade. Keep your Meganobz, Walkers, and other big stompy things away from them IMO.
4. The Wulfen curse aura does not apply to themselves or other Wulfen. They will make Thunderwolves and Skyclaws into fast moving murder machines so be careful about them.
5. Wulfen generally have to foot slog so things like Gretchen make excellent road blocks for them. Buying time to get in more shooting isn't a bad thing.
6. Tankshock those digganobz. you don't need the trukks because they are going after you most of the time and each tankshock risks them falling back (leadership 8 without the squad leader) and death or glory is very risk as it has to destroy or stun/immobilize the trukk. Ramshackle might just pull an upset and worse case scenario is the trukk gets stuck there (they have to go around) or it explodes possibly wounding some of them.

Defkopta can do a lot of damage due to their superior mobility they can get the wulven that doesn't have storm shields.

 thenewgozoku wrote:
Defkopta can do a lot of damage due to their superior mobility they can get the wulven that doesn't have storm shields.

That's true. A kopta would deal 0.46 wounds w/o cover and 0.31 with 5+. So, a couple koptas should be able to kill a wuffen. 0.25 and 0.16 respectively if you're shooting at invis or after jinking. Need to keep an eye on his other units as koptas are quite vulnerable to melee.

You can always try parking the koptas like a fence in their path. They will be forced to make 1 " moves and charges, effectively wasting their turn.

If they are all single-unit koptas, they lose their attack bonuses if they multicharge, and they have to announce ahead of time which attacks go to which units, potentially wasting some wounds.

Next turn, bring up more chaff units, or back off entirely and shoot the buggers.