| Author |
Message |
 |
|
|
 |
|
Advert
|
Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you:
- No adverts like this in the forums anymore.
- Times and dates in your local timezone.
- Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance.
- Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely.
- Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net.
If you are already a member then feel free to login now. |
|
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/11/29 06:56:40
Subject: [1850] - Dark Angels - DA Battle Company
|
 |
Grim Dark Angels Interrogator-Chaplain
|
I am strongly considering acquiring enough models in the near future (thanks to some extra money I will soon have) to run a full battle company with my Dark Angels, complete with some free transports. I'm posting this list because I have no experience putting a list like this together, and so don't know what the best route is for it. Here's what I came up with in Battlescribe:
Lion's Blade Strike Force:
Core: Battle Demi-company
Company Master: Artificer Armor, Relic Blade, Combi-plasma, Shroud of Heroes
Assault Squad: 5 men, Jump Packs, Flamer, Power Sword for Sgt., Veteran Sgt. upgrade
Devastator Squad: 5 men, 2x Gravcannon w/Gravamp, dedicated Rhino
Tactical Squad: 5 men, Meltagun, Combimelta, dedicated Drop Pod
Tactical Squad: 5 men, Plasmagun, Combiplasma, dedicated Razorback w/TL Lascannon
Tactical Squad: 5 men, Flamer, dedicated Razorback with TL Assault Cannon
Dreadnought Squadron: 1 model, TL Lascannon, Power Fist w/Storm Bolter, dedicated Drop Pod
Core: Battle Demi-company
Chaplain: Jump Pack
Assault Squad: 5 men, Jump Packs, Power Axe for Sgt., Veteran Sgt. upgrade
Devastator Squad: 5 men, 4x Lascannon, dedicated Razorback w/TL Lascannon
Tactical Squad: 5 men, Meltagun, Combimelta, dedicated Drop Pod
Tactical Squad: 5 men, Plasmagun, Combiplasma, dedicated Razorback w/TL Assault Cannon
Tactical Squad: 5 men, Gravcannon w/Gravamp, Combigrav, dedicated Rhino
Command: Inner Circle
Librarian: ML2, Bike
Auxiliary: Ravenwing Attack Squadron
Ravenwing Bike Squad: 4 bikes, 2x Gravgun, Melta Bombs
Ravenwing Land Speeder: Typhoon Missile Launcher
I worry that I probably overdid it with the upgrades and extra weapons. I like to run squads with a special weapon and a matching combi-weapon on the sarge, but I'm not sure if that's the best way to do things in a battle company. The Chaplain runs with one of the Assault Squads, while the Company Master runs with one of the plasma Tac squads. An alternative build I came up with for the CM was to take Artificer Armor, a Jump Pack, and the Mace of Redemption. If I went this route, he would run with the other Assault Squad and wreck stuff. Both builds cost the same, but I'd have to come up with a model for the jump pack one (the one in the actual list would just use the DV model). I've seen battle company lists that basically ran the CM naked; this seems like a waste of his amazing statline to me. I included the Librarian because I like to take a psyker of some kind if at all possible in my lists. I will probably have him roll either Telepathy or Divination. The Dreadnought is the one thing I would really like to replace. Only problem is, what do I replace him with? Only thing I can think of is perhaps Veterans, but I'm not sure a Drop Pod is best for them, so maybe they'd have to swap transports with another squad. If I dropped an upgrade or two from other squads I could probably kit out the Veterans nicely, though.
I'm very open to ideas from anyone with experience with a Battle Company (either DA or vanilla).
|
|
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/11/30 16:26:22
Subject: Re:[1850] - Dark Angels - DA Battle Company
|
 |
Perfect Shot Dark Angels Predator Pilot
|
I recently took a Lion's Blade to an ITC event. I went 2-2 with 1 by, so I'm no tournament genius, but t wasn't bad for my first ITC event, and at least I have a bit of current experience with it. So, that gives you some measure of what my advice is worth.
I'm going to break it down by chunks.
Lion's Blade Strike Force:
Core: Battle Demi-company
Company Master: Artificer Armor, Relic Blade, Combi-plasma, Shroud of Heroes
Assault Squad: 5 men, Jump Packs, Flamer, Power Sword for Sgt., Veteran Sgt. upgrade
Devastator Squad: 5 men, 2x Gravcannon w/Gravamp, dedicated Rhino
Tactical Squad: 5 men, Meltagun, Combimelta, dedicated Drop Pod
Tactical Squad: 5 men, Plasmagun, Combiplasma, dedicated Razorback w/TL Lascannon
Tactical Squad: 5 men, Flamer, dedicated Razorback with TL Assault Cannon
Dreadnought Squadron: 1 model, TL Lascannon, Power Fist w/Storm Bolter, dedicated Drop Pod
Your Company Master is solid. Seems like the standard representation of the DV Company Master. The Shroud of Heroes may be a bit much, points wise, but I can see why you'd take it.
I was underwhelmed with jump pack Assault Squads at my tournament. They're not fast enough, too vulnerable when exposed, and don't pack enough punch. My current theory on what's best for a Lion's Blade Assault Squad is 5-strong, 2 flamers and a sergeant (not veteran) with a combi-flamer, coming out of a drop pod.
The Dev Squad is solid.
The first Tac Squad is solid.
The second Tac Squad - plasma is kind of underwhelming this edition, especially compared to grav. In most circumstances, grav is going to serve you better.
I'd give a combi-flamer to the sergeant of the third Tac Squad.
Thoughts on Razorbacks - it can seem tempting to upgrade the guns, but remember they're a fragile platform, and upgrading the guns makes them more attractive as a target. Keep'em stock - maybe give them dozer blades, but that's about it. Use the points saved to buy more units.
The Dreadnought is a bit odd. It's not configured for a drop pod delivery, but it's also not configured to be a dedicated shooting unit. I can see deploying the Dread on the table and dropping the empty pod on an objective, but in that case I'd probably give it the twin autocannon arms. If you're dropping it, I'd go with a heavy flamer upgrade on the power fist, and either a multiemelta or a twin linked heavy flamer on the gun arm.
Core: Battle Demi-company
Chaplain: Jump Pack
Assault Squad: 5 men, Jump Packs, Power Axe for Sgt., Veteran Sgt. upgrade
Devastator Squad: 5 men, 4x Lascannon, dedicated Razorback w/TL Lascannon
Tactical Squad: 5 men, Meltagun, Combimelta, dedicated Drop Pod
Tactical Squad: 5 men, Plasmagun, Combiplasma, dedicated Razorback w/TL Assault Cannon
Tactical Squad: 5 men, Gravcannon w/Gravamp, Combigrav, dedicated Rhino
Command: Inner Circle
Librarian: ML2, Bike
The Chaplain is solid, except see my points above on jump pack Assault Squads.
Ditto the Assault Squad.
The Dev Squad - it's going to be an attractive target right from the get go, and you're going to start losing lascannons on the second casualty, and yoiu have to set it up out in the open to get full use out of it. Plus, overpriced Razorback. I'd do 2 lascannons in a Rhino.
Same comments as above on Tac Squads 1 and 2. Tac 3 is solid.
The Librarian is solid - could use a conversion field and an auspex.
Auxiliary: Ravenwing Attack Squadron
Ravenwing Bike Squad: 4 bikes, 2x Gravgun, Melta Bombs
Ravenwing Land Speeder: Typhoon Missile Launcher
I don't think anyone would criticize you for this unit.
Here's the link to the thread where I posted my ITC list, and how I modified the list based on my experience.
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/707658.page
If you check out my lists, you'll see some similarities, but take note of the differences The big one is that I squeezed in a Ravenwing Strike Force - a small one, but it still afforded me a unit of RW Black Knights and one of the flyers, using the bike Librarian as the HQ choice. Ravenwing Knights are the best unit in our dex, and the only thing better than having one unit of them would be having two units. I just don't happen to have enough models to field two units of them, and I was concerned about not having any anti-flyer defense - which proved to be unfounded, as it happens. If you want a unit to beat face with, Ravenwing Knights are the best we have - fast enough to get there, durable enough with T5 and their rerolling Jink saves to not get shot off the table, and enough crunch when they hit to put a hurt on all but the most dedicated assault units - mine even gave a reasonably good account of itself against a Cabalstar. It's hard to say enough good about Black Knights.
I did have to take a small unit of Scouts as an Auxiliary, but that wasn't so bad - 55pts of Objective Secured infiltrators was not a bad value for the price.
That said, you could do far worse than putting some more Ravenwing Attack Squadrons or a Ravenwing Support Squadron on the table. They have the advantage of being Auxiliaries, and are valuable enough in their own right to not really be a tax unit. Plus, they benefit from the full Ballistic Skill overwatch and ObSec, which my Ravenwing Strike Force did not.
The relative absence of flyers at the event made me wonder if a Ravenwing Silence Squadron might not be a bad choice. People didn't seem to be too concerned with flyer defense, so having three of them on the table might have taken advantage of a hole in the meta.
I'm also a little inclined to try out a Hammer of Caliban, but I'm a little less excited about the idea. For one thing, it'd be vulnerable to first-turn alpha strikes, so it'd have to be bubble wrapped against that. Plus, even in a 1850pt list, it'd hard to squeeze in without making compromises elsewhere. That said, five twin-linked lascannons and 7 heavy bolters (standard Godhammer Land Raider, Preds with TLLC turret and HB sponsons) is a lot of dakka.
|
|
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/12/01 16:35:51
Subject: Re:[1850] - Dark Angels - DA Battle Company
|
 |
Bounding Dark Angels Assault Marine
|
I"ll through my two cents in to. The Lion's Blade is my go to for tournaments right now, unfortunately, I haven't had the time to play that I used to but I went 2-1 at the last local ITC tournament I went to. I'm not a genius either but have done ok stumbling around the board. I agree with Grand.Master on a lot.
Company Master/Chaplain - If you're going for a little more of a fluffy list then this is spot on with both. If your looking to be more competitive this load out isn't bad but I'd suggest keeping him basic. I treat the HQ choices as a tax in the Lion's Blade. Total it's 120 points for over 300 points in free transports which is a pretty good tradeoff. The points you'd save from this could allow you to beef up the Las Dev Squad with meet shields or maybe throw in a Ravenwing Support Squadron. I almost always leave him in the back so he'd be fine sitting there with the dev squad. Same for the chaplain. I usually stick him in a rhino/razorback stock.
Assault Squads - I think Grand.Master is right on. I stopped running them with jump packs a while back. They usually get shot off the board pretty easily, often before they even have a chance to do anything. Now I always run them in a drop pod with 2 flamers minimum. I can usually make their points back the turn they come in roasting stuff and they almost always seem to be a decent distraction in the back field which helps take some of the pressure off my rhinos/razorbacks (i do upgrade some of them).
Dev Squads - 2 Grav Cannons in a rhino is awesome. They can really do some damage and actually have some protection so this is solid. I've done something similar to the 4 lascannons and a razorback w TL las. It can work but try to find the points to throw in some extra marines as a meat shield. If you can, try a 10 man dev squad so you have 6 wounds before you start losing the good stuff. Having 2 in a rhino is also a good idea. The only Issue I've had with that is that LOS can be an issue sometimes as opposed to them being on the second floor of a building but that could be an issue either way.
Tac Squads - Can't Go wrong with Grav Cannons. Love em. I use them as much as I can. I try to sprinkle some meltaguns and what not through both core formations as well, maybe a flamer if points are tight. I always try to make sure every unit has some teeth so they can't just be ignored the whole game. This is one area where I'm not sure I can totally agree with Grand.Master. He's not necessarily wrong but my experience with plasma vs. grav just has me on the fence. Gravguns on, say, a Ravenwing biker, is great. Relentless means you are always firing the full amount of shots at full range. On a tac marine i've had mixed results. The problem i've had with them is that they only get to fire at half range if they've moved and then only 2 shots. They move a lot so for me i can go grav, in which case I get 2 shots at 9" most the game, or I can take Plasma and get 2 shots at 18". I played in a tournament a couple months ago where I had issues dealing with a wraith knight because of the 9" range. I think having plasma in that game would have made a difference, maybe not a big one but it would have helped. Like I said, I'm on the fence about it. The current list I plan to use at the next tournament is still stacked with grav but i do have some plasma guns in there. As far as the comi-weapons, I keep them the same as the special/heavy weapons so that looks pretty solid.
Transports - Mainly wanted to hit on the Razorbacks. Grand.Master has a valid point. I've ran them with HB a lot. Mainly because they get popped so easily. When this happens I don't even really care because they're stock. But upgrading them is only 20 points so it may be something to consider. I'd say it depends on what you plan on doing with them. The TL Las on the Razorback with the Dev squad isn't a bad Idea. Keep it in cover and use it along with the dev squad. I'm also a big fan of TL AC. My current list has 4 of them but it also has 5 drop pods full of marines with Meltas and flamers which will help relieve some of the pressure on them. Plus TL AC are pretty versatile which I like. In the end i'd say just have a plan for what you want to do and go from there.
Dreadnought - I'm a hater. Don't like them in the current edition. I do agree with Grand.Master though. If you wanna keep him in a drop pod I'd give him a melta and flamer. The autocannons would be awesome on him, camping in the back and blasting stuff. TL las isn't bad either if you need a little more AT. I honestly don't run them though and had rather put those points into something else.
Librarian - I agree with whats been said here. Maybe give him shroud of heroes.
Auxiliary - This looks solid. I can't say enough about Gravguns on Bikes. Relentless is awesome, great mobility, re-rollable jink save. Grand.Master already mentioned one of my favorite auxiliary choices which is the Ravenwing Support Squadron. They can deep strike/outflank, have strafing run so hitting on 2+ usually, fire at Full BS, and have interceptor. Through a dark shroud in there to make them that much harder to kill. Pick your poison on load out and taylor it to what role you have in mind but they can be amazing. Also, like he said, having to take a small scout squad isn't bad. I do it all the time to really beef up the Demi-Companies. They still have obsec and are useful. Also, i agree with Grand.Master, Black Knights are great. If you are taking a Ravenwing Strike Force i'd say have them in there. Can't say enough good about these guys.
I don't really worry about AA. Honestly I haven't ran into enough Flyers to fool with it and the few I have seen haven't given me to many issues. Plus, in a pinch, i just snap shoot my TL AC at them to try and make them jink or maybe even take a hull point.
More food for thought - I usually try to include a drop pod full of melta. I have had great success with them when I do. Destroying Pask's unit, a Knight, or a Baneblade turn one is pretty mean and very gratifying. Just watch out for stuff like Tau with interceptor haha. Like I said, I have 5 Drop Pods in my list. 2 command squads with 5 melta each, 2 assault squads with 2 flamers each, and 1 10 man tac squad loaded out with Grav Cannons/Guns. This gives me a lot of flexibility based on what kind of list i'm playing. For example, if it is an AM list full of tanks then i'm bringing in the melta/grav turn 1 but if it's a nid list with lots of bodies I bring in the flamers.
Anyways, that's just my thoughts on it. I don't have my list posted on here but if you'd like some ideas shoot me a PM and I'll send you my list. Feel free to ignore any or all of hit haha. Hope this helps.
|
Dark Angels - 8000
Blood Angels - 4000
Astra Militarum - 2000
|
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/12/02 02:23:30
Subject: Re:[1850] - Dark Angels - DA Battle Company
|
 |
Grim Dark Angels Interrogator-Chaplain
|
Wow, you guys went above and beyond! I really appreciate the advice and will most definitely heed it, even if I don't change everything right away. I am somewhat limited in what I can purchase and therefore trying to get as much mileage out of my existing models as possible. For that reason, at least for now, I'll be running at least one Assault Squad with jump packs. The other will take 2 flamers and go in a pod (the pod that would have had the Dread in it). I'm definitely dropping the Dread; its loadout sucks because I was stupid and glued it that way. If I end up adding one later, I'll give it a better weapon loadout, probably with magnets. I'm also going to at least keep 2 Lascannon Razorbacks, as again I already have the models. I'm going to buy some more of them though, and I'll probably do magnets on them.
As for the tac squads, I'm probably going to run them as stated, possibly with the exception of the squad with the flamer. That squad will be getting a melta and combimelta. In place of the Dread, and with the points saved from changing the Assault Squad to a pod instead of the somewhat pricey jump pack loadout, I am thinking of a Company Veteran Squad, with a Gravcannon and some other stuff, in a Rhino. The CM can ride with them. Otherwise, I'm probably gonna keep it the way it is until I get yet more models.
Here's the list with the above changes:
Demi-company 1:
Company Master: Artificer Armor, Relic Blade, Combi-plasma, Shroud of Heroes
Assault Squad: 2x Flamer, dedicated Drop Pod
Devastator Squad: 2x Gravcannon, dedicated Rhino
Tac Squad 1: Meltagun, Combimelta, dedicated Drop Pod
Tac Squad 2: Plasmagun, Combiplasma, dedicated Razorback w/TL Lascannon
Tac Squad 3: Meltagun, Combimelta, dedicated Razorback w/TL Assault Cannon
Company Veteran Squad: Plasmagun, Gravcannon, Combiplasma, dedicated Rhino
Demi-company 2:
Chaplain: Jump Pack
Assault Squad: Jump Packs, Flamer, Power Axe, Veteran Sgt. upgrade
Devastator Squad: 4x Lascannon, dedicated Razorback w/TL Lascannon
Tac Squad 1: Meltagun, Combimelta, dedicated Drop Pod
Tac Squad 2: Plasmagun, Combiplasma, dedicated Razorback w/TL Heavy Bolter
Tac Squad 3: Gravcannon, Combigrav, dedicated Rhino
Command:
Librarian: ML2, Bike, Auspex
Auxiliary: Ravenwing Attack Squadron
Ravenwing Bike Squad: 4 bikes, 2x Gravgun, Meltabombs
Ravenwing Land Speeder: Typhoon Missile Launcher
To me, this looks like an improvement on the other list. The Veterans will do much more than the Dread. I was thinking the Veterans ought to be set up to be TAC, hence the mix of Grav and Plasma (being able to take a Special and a Heavy with only 5 dudes is nice). I generally hate to take Grav on anything that isn't either Relentless or stationary (the grav Devs will drive into position on the first turn, pop smoke, then sit still in their Rhino and do their magical, musical thing), but a Grav Cannon isn't hampered as much since it still has 3 shots at full ballistic skill and 12 inch range. I also like to have plasma around for those pesky enemies like Daemons, Orks, and Genestealer Cults that have crap armor saves and basically stick their middle finger up at Grav.
Thanks again to you guys for all the helpful advice! Anyone else can feel free to chime in with their own advice as well. I will listen!
|
|
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/12/02 15:59:58
Subject: Re:[1850] - Dark Angels - DA Battle Company
|
 |
Perfect Shot Dark Angels Predator Pilot
|
@ILegion: There aren't too many situations where I'd rather have plasma than grav. Daemons though - grav isn't so hot against daemons, so I'll give you that.
Part of my list design was the limitations of my collection - I've only got 2 grav cannons and 1 grav gun, so I gave a Tac Squad a grav gun and a combi-grav and put them in a Rhino, the idea being I could move them within 18" with the Rhino, then have them fire out the top hatch. Didn't pan out that way every game, but it did work.
If I were going to upgrade my Razorbacks, it'd be with TL assault cannons. Much more versatile weapon than the TLLC.
@ZergSmasher: Yeah, I get having to work within the limits of your collection. Had to deal with that too. Though my collection is pretty deep. I've been playing since 3rd ed.
Dreadnought arms, you don't need to magnetize. They fit snugly enough to stay on the model without glue. Also, if you don't glue on your Razorback turrets, you can order different ones from a bitz seller on eBay, or get them from Forge World, or possibly from a third party company like Chapterhouse. Also, if you don't glue on the top plate, you can swap them back and forth between being Razorbacks and Rhinos. I glue to the two Rhino top hatch doors together so they form one convenient piece for that purpose. Maybe you already knew this, but if you didn't, there you go.
So, one unit DA players seem to use is Command Squads. They load up a Command Squad with 4 grav guns and one of the banner options makes the squad Relentless. Put them in a drop pod, and have them erase a Riptide or Wraithknight first turn. I think the current state of the rules even lets you upgrade one of the Vets to an Apothecary and have him keep whatever upgrades you buy him - so you get an Apothecary with a grav gun. Not sure how expensive it is, but that unit would definitely do some damage.
|
|
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/12/02 18:00:15
Subject: Re:[1850] - Dark Angels - DA Battle Company
|
 |
Grim Dark Angels Interrogator-Chaplain
|
Thanks! I did know about the swapping Razorback/Rhino top plates, and I was intending to do just that! I also do know about the Command Squad Grav trick. It is extremely expensive (clocks in at 215 points assuming free pod) and, to me, way too squishy. I haven't completely dismissed it though. Maybe if I can get Invis on them...  . I went with regular Veterans because they can take a heavy weapon whereas a Command Squad cannot. Not sure if this is a good idea, but...eh. Like I said, this is my first time building one of these, so I'll eventually work all the bugs out. Your advice has been very enlightening, thanks again for the help!
|
|
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/12/03 06:01:09
Subject: [1850] - Dark Angels - DA Battle Company
|
 |
Perfect Shot Dark Angels Predator Pilot
|
One more thought on the Command Squad - if you want to hold the price down a bit, you could always give them combi-gravs instead of grav guns. That'd only give you that 1 turn of grav-blasting, but as you observed, you're only likely to get one anyway. Save you 20pts, plus one wouldn't particularly need to give them an Apothecary either, as they'd be a one-shot weapon. If by some miracle they don't die, they've still got bolters, 2 attacks each on their profile, Relentless, and ObSec, and that's not awful.
|
|
|
|
 |
 |
|
|
|