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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/12/09 17:13:56
Subject: [1850] - Tau - ITC GT, Competitive, Anit-Psyker [UPDATED WITH RESULTS]
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Reliable Krootox
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I have a tournament coming up soon, and it will be my FLGS's first ITC GT level event. We have had our ITC ranked RTTs dominated by the other regional clubs, whose members usually rank fairly high on the ITC boards and have multiple Major event level winners among them. I harbor no illusions about winning my first multi-day competition, but I want to make the second day cut and gain some experience at that level. Here's what I have landed on so far:
Farsight Enclaves CAD:
-Commander: Irridium, Stims, Drone Controller, CnC Node, 2xMarker Drones
-7xMarkerDrones
-10xKroot
-10xKroot
-Y'vahra w/EWO
-Stormsurge w/Blastcannon, TL-Burstcannons, 4++, EWO, Velocity Tracker
Riptide Wing:
-Riptide w/HBC, SMS, EWO
-Riptide w/HBC, SMS, EWO
-Riptide w/Ion, SMS, EWO
Null Maiden Task Force:
-5xSisters of Silence w/Greatswords
-5xSisters of Silence w/Greatswords
-5xSisters of Silence w/Greatswords
The Event will have multiple Battle Companies (>3), Daemon Flying Circus, Decurion Necrons (>2), TSons of unknown flavor (>2), SW Thunderbus, Wolfenstar, Chaos Demon Knight (2++ Rerollable), Eldar (>3), Ripwing Tau, Genestealer Cult and a partridge in a pear tree. We will be using a modified mission packet, the big differences between it and the ITC's is:
-More objectives per mission (average is 4.5)
-Kill Points are part of 4 missions. Two are traditional KP. The other two score a point toward the mission if you kill a unit each turn, not for each unit killed, so only one point per turn.
-Progressive Objectives are not random and are scored at the end of the Players turn.
Generally speaking the Commander's TL'ed Drones should help with FMCs, hopefully allowing the Stormsurge's Blastcannon and D-Missiles cut through some buffed up Invuln Daemons, or help the rest of the list focus down any multi-Flyrant builds if they appear.
I like having one Ion Accelerator in the Riptide Wing to make positioning behind the Sisters a little easier. Especially in Hammer and Anvil squeezing between or behind them and still getting a full Hailfire off with 3xHBCs is rare with only a 36" range on all three.
I could Swap the Kroot out for Crisis Suits. The additional Deployment options and bubble wrap tends to come in handy, but if I could use more coverage plugging potential vulnerabilities they could go.
The Sisters have been a great answer to Psychic Deathstars, as their coverage of the battlefield is so much larger than a single Culexus. Removing 15 wounds in Power Armor, hiding in Cover, has been much more difficult for my opponents than focusing down the single Assassin. They should also be more valuable against Battle Company as Counter Assault threat.
The Y'vahra could use Stims, but I would need to come up with the points.
I'll continue testing this list in the coming weeks, and maybe get a battle report up. That's about it, thanks for reading. Any comments are greatly appreciated!
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This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2017/01/23 21:28:18
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/12/09 18:40:04
Subject: [1850] - Tau - ITC GT, Competitive, Anit-Psyker
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Fresh-Faced New User
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Personally I would drop velocity tracker from the SS and 2 of the marker drones (or the stim from commander) put stim on the yvahra and with any left over pts maybe give 1 of the kroot units a hound
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/12/10 13:09:53
Subject: Re:[1850] - Tau - ITC GT, Competitive, Anit-Psyker
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Reliable Krootox
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Would that leave me too vunerable to list with 4+ FMCs? Specifically Daemons with 2++ rerollable saves. I would love the Y'vahra to get Stims, I just need a good option to cover the sky. With the introduction of Magnus and the Omniscient Oracles formation, I expect to see quite a few tough FMCs. Dropping the Skyfire from the Blastcannon and Destroyer Missiles, while simultaneously paring down my only source of Markers makes me hesitant. Would you see those changes stacking up well against a durable Flying Circus or Pentyrant build? That's an honest question, because The Y'vahra is a lynchpin against other lists (AdLance, GSCs, Gladius) and buying him extra time is well worth it.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/12/14 22:41:31
Subject: [1850] - Tau - ITC GT, Competitive, Anit-Psyker
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Reliable Krootox
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How would you tackle Flyer-Heavy matchups with those changes?
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/12/14 22:42:17
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/12/15 01:36:19
Subject: [1850] - Tau - ITC GT, Competitive, Anit-Psyker
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Battlewagon Driver with Charged Engine
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Your list looks strong and well thought-out. My only question is; with so many objectives, you may not need to bring so much psychic D. If the main purpose of expending those points on defense instead of offense or objective secured units is psychic deathstars, you may be better off just playing to the objectives; they can't be everywhere at once.
Alternate ideas are: cut the psychic D and some fat for a second Stormsurge (could be a cheap one with just EWO, to hide behind the first until it went down to a couple wounds, then a switcheroo). The stomps alone are their own special type of anti-invis, and also happen to follow my favorite tactic of all:
"What's your plan?"
"just roll 6's baby!"
Or perhaps consider the inclusion of a fast tarpit for said psychic Deathstars. I have always found a Canoptek Harvest to be useful for Tau in these scenarios. Even with (modified ITC) invisibility, the only thing that matters is not dying quickly, which the harvest does well. If you have a buddy to borrow one from, this would hold the star up for a couple rounds while you nab those progressive scoring points or easy KP. They are also more of a TAC option than the sisters.
TLDR: I am sure you will do well with the list, just throwing out some ideas since you asked for feedback. You should also take my advice with a grain of salt; I play about 1 event a year now as I have a young family. Good luck!
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/12/15 01:37:40
Rule #1 is Look Cool. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/12/15 02:01:59
Subject: [1850] - Tau - ITC GT, Competitive, Anit-Psyker
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Sneaky Sniper Drone
Oklahoma
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Do you have tetras?
If so I'd swap them in instead of the commander and drones.
that way you have multiple squads of markerlights that also have a 12inch scout move to get off some great re-deploys.
you could drop the kroot,drones, commnader and pick up an ethereal, 2 suits, 4 tetras, and an extra riptide.
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I aren't think that.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/12/15 02:59:16
Subject: [1850] - Tau - ITC GT, Competitive, Anit-Psyker
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Reliable Krootox
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The Shrike wrote:My only question is; with so many objectives, you may not need to bring so much psychic D. If the main purpose of expending those points on defense instead of offense or objective secured units is psychic deathstars, you may be better off just playing to the objectives; they can't be everywhere at once.
The main reason I took them is definatly psychic defeence. The second reason was that I wanted to get some Krooty counts as alien hounds to make the Formatiion fit my army. I liked the AP2 that they brought as a counter assault as well. The fact that they seem (so far) to work better at then a Culexus is just great, but I could dial back the number. In fact, after a few games with them, I think you are probably right.
The Shrike wrote:Alternate ideas are: cut the psychic D and some fat for a second Stormsurge (could be a cheap one with just EWO, to hide behind the first until it went down to a couple wounds, then a switcheroo).
I . . .kind of love this idea. I will play around with the points and see if I can swing a good "cheap" second 'Surge.
The Shrike wrote:Or perhaps consider the inclusion of a fast tarpit for said psychic Deathstars. I have always found a Canoptek Harvest to be useful for Tau in these scenarios.
I have used a Harvest very successfully with my Tau in the Highlander Format. It is a great combo, and only failed me when either someone rolled great (can't be helped) or I ran into Daemon Flying Circus or Flyrant Spam. The Harvest just had nothing to do while the Flyers dominated. I could get off a good Assault if I got lucky and someone failed a Grounding check. I expect the former to be there in excess, so I wanted to go in a different direction. Plus that way I had an excuse to buy more stuff. I think I would like to stay with the Sisters for this event, but their scope is very mutable.
Very true. They also draw a ton of the shooting off of Markerlight sources (especially the Spyder), which is invaluable.
The Shrike wrote:I play about 1 event a year now as I have a young family. Good luck!
Congratulations, I just started mine as well! I don't get much time to paint too much anymore, but I have kept playing once a week, and the occasional Tournament.
You bet! I have 6 painted and on the shelf. They are my favorite Marker source. I have never had fewer regrets about buying a model.
Sheit27 wrote:If so I'd swap them in instead of the commander and drones.
I could definitely do that, but that would leave me lacking an HQ, and the Stormsurge needs quite a few Markerlights to get off a Destroyer Missile strike on the opening Turn. I do have to admit, the Tetras would give me more maneuverability to land those Marker hits on distant targets, and make it harder for my opponents to hide from the D-Missiles during deployment. The Tetras are also great at Marking Flyers too.
Sheit27 wrote:you could drop the kroot,drones, commnader and pick up an ethereal, 2 suits, 4 tetras, and an extra riptide.
Where would you put the Ethereal? He would have to start attached to a Suit? I could use this idea to shuffle points, and maybe free up some space for that other Stormsurge too. . .I have to work those numbers.
Those are some great brainstorms guys. I'll have to put the list through some permutations tonight, with different combinations of these ideas. I'll get to work and get back with a update soon. Thanks!
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/12/23 17:38:12
Subject: Re:[1850] - Tau - ITC GT, Competitive, Anit-Psyker
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Reliable Krootox
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Ok, here's an updated list with a some of the suggestions from here worked in:
Riptide Wing
-Riptide w/Heavy Burst Cannon, EWO, SMS
-Riptide w/Heavy Burst Cannon, EWO, SMS
-Riptide w/Ion Accel., EWO, SMS
Null Maiden Task Force
-5xSisters w/Greatswords
-5xSisters w/Greatswords
FSE CAD
-Ethereal
-Crisis Suit
-Crisis Suit
-3xTetras
-3xTetras
-Y'vahra w/EWO
-2xMissilesides w/EWO
-Stormsurge w/Blastcannon, EWO, VT, 4++
I dialed back the Sisters to only two units. Then traded them along with the Commander and his Drones for the Tetras, Ethereal and a pair of Missilesides. The Broadsides will hopefully help mitigate the amount of Interceptor the Riptides need to get involved in, so they are at full power for Hailfire. The second minimum Surge would be great, but I couldn't find a way to make the points work without dropping the Y'vahra, and even then, I'd have to trim more. I really don't want to drop another squad of Sisters, they are too dominant in my games so far, and such a massive help in ways the Culexus never could hope to match. The huge footprint two squads have should still be great, and dropping the one squad will make avoiding "One Eye Open" tests a little easier. I will playtest this list next week, and see if the shake-up spices things up a little. I also have an extra 17 points, I'll dump them into CDS on the Burstsides, maybe some guns for the Crisis, or an extra Sister.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/12/23 22:31:36
Subject: [1850] - Tau - ITC GT, Competitive, Anit-Psyker
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Regular Dakkanaut
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I like the list! I would strongly advise switching that Ethereal for a Fire Blade if he's just there as a tax anyhow. For ten points more it is totally worth not giving up an extra VP and adding a BS5 Markerlight.Then you've got 7 points to stick a Flamer on a suit.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/12/24 01:07:15
Subject: [1850] - Tau - ITC GT, Competitive, Anit-Psyker
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Reliable Krootox
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Good point, the Ld bubble wont be that helpful, and his Invocations will be wasted, for the most part. I just picked up a great 3rd party Character to kitbash and this will work perfectly!
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/12/28 04:29:04
Subject: Re:[1850] - Tau - ITC GT, Competitive, Anit-Psyker
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Reliable Krootox
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Alright, here's an update: I ran the list as revised against a WS Battle Company + IKnight, piloted against one of our more competitive players. The match was effectively over turn 2, and the Tetras were MVP. The Sisters did great with 3 key assaults on the King of the Hill Objective, the Y'vahra was key against Power Armor with his low AP, and the Fireblade allowed the Broadsides to fire on multiple targets, while still having Interceptor. The Tetra's ability to Scout was critical in forcing a deployment mistake by the White Scars. They enticed his Anti-tank units off to one side then redeployed behind a LoS blocking building, following up by scooting over to he opposite side of the field to Mark the Iknight for D-Missiles. Every time I field the Sisters against someone who has no Psykers, I find them much more useful than the Culexus (who is still good in that situation too). The 15 attacks at I5 with AP2 murdered many Marines. The two Primary Missions were Hold Objectives at the end of the game, and Hold Objectives at the end of your turn. That was a big advantage for a Battle Company and all their ObSec, so I was very encouraged by this performance.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2017/01/10 21:12:09
Subject: Re:[1850] - Tau - ITC GT, Competitive, Anit-Psyker
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Reliable Krootox
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Ok, so I had a game against a game against one of our better local players, but he was using a slightly less competitive list than usual. He played a Elder Warhost with a Pale Court core w/
-Autarch Wings, Fusion Gun, Shard
-5xSpiders w/Exarch
-5xSpiders w/Exarch
-5xSpiders w/Exarch
-5xRangers
Aspect Shrine (+1 WS)
-5xScorpions w/Exarch
-5xScorpions w/Exarch
-10xBanshees w/Exarch
Aspect Shrine (+1 BS)
-3xReapers w/Exarch
-4xReapers w/Exarch
-5xSwooping Hawks w/Exarch
Dire Avenger Shrine
-5xDire Avengers w/Exarch
-5xDire Avengers
-5xDire Avengers
Wraith Constructs
-Wraithknight w/Sword and Board
I managed to get first turn and gambled hard on the Tetra's ability to guide in all 4 D Missiles from the Surge. The Knight was down by half after some good 5++ saves, only letting one D hit through. I heavily abused the Homing function of the SMS on all my Battlesuits to clear Scorpions and Scouts out of the LoS blocking terrain with the Relic. The Wraithknight managed a nice 9" Assault into the Y'vahra, ending him, and the Dire Avengers moved up to do a couple of Wounds to a Riptide with Bladestorm. Secound turn was mopping up close Infantry (Avengers, Scorpions, and Banshees), and D-shotgunning the Wraithknight down. His turn his reserves arrived, all three Spider squads and the Hawks. They were Intercepted and all but one squad of Spiders were gone. He conceded at that point, and we packed up.
While he was playing a less scary list than usual (all the units he's currently finishing up painting), I had some other heavily beneficial things in my favor: I had first Turn, Hammer and Anvil against Infantry, the Mission was the Relic (the Tournamant version has 2 other Objectives too), and Kill Points. Had he Seized, the Deployment been different, there been more Objectives for the Progressive Mission, or no Kill Points, this would have been a tougher match. As it was , he felt he needed to be very aggressive, which only helped me. The Tetra's ability to Scout kept them from being out of range of the Wraithknight T1, something I would have never been so aggressive with, had I still been running the Commander+Drones. This was the first match where the Sisters were pretty useless. They were ready to Assault in to the Wraithknight and stall it, had he lived, but they were too slow to contribute after that. I'm feeling more confident running without the Commander, and the Broadsides are a lifesaver on Interceptor. The Splitfire on the Fireblade came in handy twice, allowing the Broadsides to finish off two smaller Squads and leaving the Riptides to focus on fresh targets.
I think I could get in another match before the GT, any other suggestions?
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2017/01/11 02:16:30
Subject: [1850] - Tau - ITC GT, Competitive, Anit-Psyker
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Sneaky Sniper Drone
Oklahoma
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I'm glad the tetras worked out in that game for you. That's my favorite part about them. People tend to forget that they can scout re-deploy and get you the vital markerlights for the alpha strike with the D missiles or get them out of harm.
I would suggest especially because your only running 1 Y-tide try holding him back a turn or two if you have the time and room on board. His threat range is massive and the more time that plays on the more opportunity for your opponent to forget and expose a unit in his list to it where you might otherwise be slinging him forward and in danger. Not to mention my opponents never remember the EWO on the Y-tides when bringing in reserves.
I'm not sure you need 7 different units with EWO. I I think you'd be fine taking it off of the burst tides right now.
If your play style is that of a fire base you could look at an Munitorum Armoured Container for 40 points ( http://imgur.com/fLyOTmP) to 4 ammo dumps stretching 12 inches (re-roll 1s)
another option would be dropping the broadsides, 1 tetra, and the velocity tracker for 195 points, add another ion tide with target lock.
I tried scrapping the points for a 2nd Y-tide but it's just not possible unless you drop to 4 tetras. That's doable but pretty much a one hit punch for the D missiles and their likely dead.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/01/11 02:18:57
I aren't think that.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2017/01/11 20:44:45
Subject: [1850] - Tau - ITC GT, Competitive, Anit-Psyker
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Reliable Krootox
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Sheit27 wrote:I would suggest especially because your only running 1 Y-tide try holding him back a turn or two if you have the time and room on board. His threat range is massive and the more time that plays on the more opportunity for your opponent to forget and expose a unit in his list to it where you might otherwise be slinging him forward and in danger. Not to mention my opponents never remember the EWO on the Y-tides when bringing in reserves.
You are very right, I often over commit him Turn 1. Sometime this is deliberate, but often could be avoided. This is doubly important since I ran the FW Datasheet past the TO, with regards to the Y'vahra being able to Charge if he makes move "like a Swooping MC". He said it was doable as he interprets the "only for that phase" clause. Twice now I wished I could hide in a squad of Tacs or Artillery, but didn't want to push it. With a 1/3 chance to Hit and Run or a 2/3 chance to Nova out of combat this is a nice option to have, but only if I have the Y'vahra active in the later turns.
Sheit27 wrote:I'm not sure you need 7 different units with EWO. I I think you'd be fine taking it off of the burst tides right now.
I would be hesitant there, the Nova'd SMS is great on Interceptor, and I usually would rather have it and not need it. If I really needed to scrounge 15 points, maybe, but it would have to be a really good trade off.
Sheit27 wrote:If your play style is that of a fire base you could look at an Munitorum Armoured Container for 40 points ( http://imgur.com/fLyOTmP) to 4 ammo dumps stretching 12 inches (re-roll 1s)
I love these things! If I had the time to paint them up, I might try them out. I love the Idea of deployable cover, especially now that MCs need 25% coverage to take cover. The Re-Roll 1s also works perfectly with 2 Markerlights, doubly so when dishing out D Missiles that are so critical to hit with. I think I will be buying (or creating my own Tau version) one or two for these for future use.
Sheit27 wrote:another option would be dropping the broadsides, 1 tetra, and the velocity tracker for 195 points, add another ion tide with target lock.
The Fireblade would be pretty vunerable, just praying to fail his Reserve checks. There's nothing else for him to join. I could grab a Ghostkeel and a squad of Fire Warriors, but that seems less worth it. I really find myself wishing a more stand-alone HQ was less pricy. I could sneak in R'alai for a similar points cost. He can be a beating.
Sheit27 wrote:I tried scrapping the points for a 2nd Y-tide but it's just not possible unless you drop to 4 tetras. That's doable but pretty much a one hit punch for the D missiles and their likely dead.
If I had the second Y'vahra, I would definitely make room. That would probably be the only thing dangerous enough to make up for the force multiplication of the removed Tetras.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2017/01/23 19:48:08
Subject: Re:[1850] - Tau - ITC GT, Competitive, Anit-Psyker
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Reliable Krootox
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Alright, follow-up time! First, thank you to everyone who helped me out here, I was grateful for the brainpower, and was very happy to run a competitive list that was not a perfect clone of every other Tau netlist. The changes gave my army some good character and unexpected potential that was unlike the standard Tau that my opponents had been prepping for.
With that aside, I did well. The event was the Goldensprue GT and the results are here.
Short version, I placed 9th after day one and missed the cut by one (top 8). The competition was stiff, as you can see from the rankings of the attendees, and the event and venue were amazing. The sight had plenty of room (rarely a perk) and a full bar with food. The TO was awesome, and on top of everything, from printed terrain sheets and descriptions (that alone avoided the most common arguments I have seen an many events) to fully stocked tables with multiple LoS blocking pieces, and local support form the FLGS with a 25% off GW merch.
First round was up against a great Eldar list with a Lynx, 2 Warp Hunters, Double D Wraithknight, 4 Scatpacks, and 2 units each with 2 Hornets. Everything was hidden under a VSG. Dawn of War Deployment. His list was Kryptonite to mine with so much StrD. He 6ed out my Surge and a Riptide turn 1, and it was all downhill from there. I took out the Hornets, most of the Bikes and the Knight, but he scored max points and denied me a single one. Rough start.
Round two I was up against a Demon list with 6 Nurglings, a D-Thirster, and a Tetrad. Vanguard Strike deployment. He had first turn. The Stormsurge and Tetras were allstars. Combined with the Twin-linked Markerlights, the Skyfire Surge was almost unfair. After they swooped in Turn 1, the massacre was fast. The highlight was definitely when the 1 wound Khorne Daemon Prince dying while assaulting and exploding a Tetra. I had him tabled by turn 3.
Round 3 was a fast moving Dark Eldar vehicle spam list. The board had 4 large LoS blocking pieces, and he had a great chance to advance on the top of turn 1. Hammer and Anvil Deployment. SMS played a huge role in taking out all the AP2 and Poison shots. By the bottom of Turn 4 I had removed almost everything and he scooped.
I ended day one with 66/99 possible Battle Points, but just shy of the cutoff. I was pretty happy with this for my first 2-day event, but would have liked to have made the cut. Day two I had the option to continue in the competitive bracket, or join the rest of the people who did not make the top tier in the Friendly Bracket. I opted for Beerhammer on day two, and the bonus points from a second hobby score. The Friendly was a second 1,500pt list that would get judged again for appearance, but no BPs were scored. I brought a Tau infantry list (where every non-Battlesuit was a Kroot kitbash) that had 40 Kroot, 20 Hounds, 10 Fire Warriors, 15 Pathfinders, 3 Broadsides, 3 Ghostkeels and 4 Tetras. It was fun and with all my infantry conversions I was still able to take Best Overall!
If you want to see the great armies everyone brought, here's link to a short video by Ego Queen Alexis hitting the highlights (local Cosplay/Blogger girl that got drunk and shot footage).
Thanks again to everybody that helped, I needed the great results on day 1 to place so well, and you guys helped me make the changes I needed to do that. Here are some pictures, Mostly model-porn, enjoy!
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