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can a heavy weapons squad be placed in a Chimera?

Requirements for embarkation:
In an Infantry Unit - Check (BRB page 80)
Has no rule specifically preventing it from embarking - Check (for example, Terminators cannot ride in Rhinos because there is a specific rule in the Rhino entry preventing them)
Will fit within the transport capacity of the vehicle, including the Bulky rule - Check (HWT are Bulky, see the HWT special rule in the "Heroes Beyond Number" part of the AM book)

Yep, Heavy Weapon Squads can ride in Chimeras. The problem becomes that they cannot purchase one as a Dedicated Transport, and the AM book is so old that you cannot purchase one separately (you can take Rhino's as a stand-alone Fast Attack choice in Space Marine armies, for example). You would need to buy one for a different unit, park it near the HWS during deployment, and then embark the HWS in your first turn (as only the unit that purchased a DT can start the game inside it).

well that bites, you would think it would give them the option of getting one?

Yeah, I had to check, as I wasn't sure, it's just the sort of option you'd assume them to have. It's even more glaring on Special Weapons Squads, who really need a transport more.

Course it can but it counts as two models remember

 Quanar wrote:
(you can take Rhino's as a stand-alone Fast Attack choice in Space Marine armies, for example).

Rhinos can't carry Bulky models, and would be Battle Brothers, so no different than taking an Infantry Squad's Chimera for timing.

 Charistoph wrote:

 Quanar wrote:
(you can take Rhino's as a stand-alone Fast Attack choice in Space Marine armies, for example).

Rhinos can't carry Bulky models, and would be Battle Brothers, so no different than taking an Infantry Squad's Chimera for timing.

but Rhino's can carry Devastator teams and even at no penalty.

 Charistoph wrote:

 Quanar wrote:
(you can take Rhino's as a stand-alone Fast Attack choice in Space Marine armies, for example).

Rhinos can't carry Bulky models, and would be Battle Brothers, so no different than taking an Infantry Squad's Chimera for timing.

I wasn't meaning to ally-in some space marine rhinos, I was just using it as an example of a transport that could be purchased on it's own (i.e. not a Dedicated Transport).

Although I'd mis-remembered the Rhino / Bulky thing, so thanks for that.

problem as I see it if I want a motorized army I will have to forego having heavy weapons, special troops, conscripts, it will be just a command squad and basic trooper squads.

Asterios wrote:

 Charistoph wrote:

 Quanar wrote:
(you can take Rhino's as a stand-alone Fast Attack choice in Space Marine armies, for example).

Rhinos can't carry Bulky models, and would be Battle Brothers, so no different than taking an Infantry Squad's Chimera for timing.

but Rhino's can carry Devastator teams and even at no penalty.

And they can take them as Dedicated Transports, too, as Devastators are not Bulky while Heavy Weapon Teams are Bulky. A Land Raider would have been a better example, over all.

Asterios wrote:problem as I see it if I want a motorized army I will have to forego having heavy weapons, special troops, conscripts, it will be just a command squad and basic trooper squads.

You can still have mechanized Heavy and Special Weapons, but they will be incorporated as part of the Command, Infantry, and Veteran Squads.

It's a shame, too. There is really no reason to leave them without a DT. I can't remember, did Heavy Weapon Platoons be able to take DTs, back in the day?

 Charistoph wrote:

Asterios wrote:

 Charistoph wrote:

 Quanar wrote:
(you can take Rhino's as a stand-alone Fast Attack choice in Space Marine armies, for example).

Rhinos can't carry Bulky models, and would be Battle Brothers, so no different than taking an Infantry Squad's Chimera for timing.

but Rhino's can carry Devastator teams and even at no penalty.

And they can take them as Dedicated Transports, too, as Devastators are not Bulky while Heavy Weapon Teams are Bulky. A Land Raider would have been a better example, over all.

Asterios wrote:problem as I see it if I want a motorized army I will have to forego having heavy weapons, special troops, conscripts, it will be just a command squad and basic trooper squads.

You can still have mechanized Heavy and Special Weapons, but they will be incorporated as part of the Command, Infantry, and Veteran Squads.

It's a shame, too. There is really no reason to leave them without a DT. I can't remember, did Heavy Weapon Platoons be able to take DTs, back in the day?

well off hand the only troop transport i might be able to use for the Heavy Weapons squads is the Valkyrie maybe? but seems a bit overkill to me.

You could also go Unbound, too. Dedicated Transport Role units are not so restricted there, either.

But the Valkyrie is an (expensive) option, to be sure. Heavy Weapon Squads don't need them as much as the Special Squads due to their Range and lack of desire to move them once placed.

Alternatively, just load them all in a Stormlord. It can fit 20 full HWTs for some reason.

 malamis wrote:
Alternatively, just load them all in a Stormlord. It can fit 20 full HWTs for some reason.

yeah but the storm lord is a pricy tank.

There is no dedicated Transport battlefield role.

What that means with unbound is unclear.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Asterios wrote:

 malamis wrote:
Alternatively, just load them all in a Stormlord. It can fit 20 full HWTs for some reason.

yeah but the storm lord is a pricy tank.

Also not worth loading them in if you plan on moving it: SHT lost the "Stable firing Platform" rule a couple editions ago.

I just don't understand why they can have some items in a single troop choice which can have a transport and others that cannot ? and all in the same troop choice.

Asterios wrote:
I just don't understand why they can have some items in a single troop choice which can have a transport and others that cannot ? and all in the same troop choice.

The IG book was written right at the absolute end of 6th edition, we believe by a dedicated treadhead. Speaking as a dedicated tread head, applying thought and care to the infantry would be waaay down the list after giving the Leman Russ All The Goodies.

That it backfired in 7th edition's "Vehicles are a liability" era is a matter for the historians :|

 Kommissar Kel wrote:
There is no dedicated Transport battlefield role.

What that means with unbound is unclear.

Sure there is. Roles are not limited to what is in the rulebook. The rulebook even states this. The C:AM (IG) codex has their army list entries divided by section according to their battlefield role. What section are Chimeras, Taurox, and Taurox Primes? Dedicated Transports.

problem as I see it, you can take a squad which can have a heavy weapon team in it in a Chimera so why shouldn't a heavy weapon squad be able to fit in a chimera? its less people so you would think they would fit and yet there is no allowance for such.

Asterios wrote:
problem as I see it, you can take a squad which can have a heavy weapon team in it in a Chimera so why shouldn't a heavy weapon squad be able to fit in a chimera? its less people so you would think they would fit and yet there is no allowance for such.

You can fit them in a Chimera, they just can't deploy in them for a Battle-Forged Army at present.

 Charistoph wrote:

Asterios wrote:
problem as I see it, you can take a squad which can have a heavy weapon team in it in a Chimera so why shouldn't a heavy weapon squad be able to fit in a chimera? its less people so you would think they would fit and yet there is no allowance for such.

You can fit them in a Chimera, they just can't deploy in them for a Battle-Forged Army at present.

thats the thing I can't even buy them a Chimera to go in since a Chimera is only for dedicated transports only for those units which can have them.

As charistoph said, rules as written no, but for all intents and purposes yes. The codex is a tad old and as others have said, it does not have some of the more updated rules.

My buddies and I all are friendly and we discuss rules and contradictions before playing. Some of our players are using older codexs such as Guard and SOB. We all agree, that the new systems of 7th allowing transports to be purchases as fast attack or even standalone (assuming the codex is really old and needs some updating) is granted. It makes perfect sense, follows pattern and is to use seems rules as currently intended. IE: why allow all factions except yours not have this ability simply because GW doesn't think your codex is fiscally worth updating.

Asterios wrote:
problem as I see it, you can take a squad which can have a heavy weapon team in it in a Chimera so why shouldn't a heavy weapon squad be able to fit in a chimera? its less people so you would think they would fit and yet there is no allowance for such.

Because HWS are normally a static unit that can't shoot effectively if you move them in a transport. Fluff-wise if they have Chimeras (or, more likely, an unarmored truck or similar vehicle) they're used before the battle begins and the HWS begin the game already deployed where they're going to be. If there's a limited supply of Chimeras available (fluff-wise) they're going to be given to units that depend on transports for mobility: veterans, command squads, maybe basic platoon infantry if any Chimeras are left. Therefore you get the current situation: HWS are fully capable of embarking into a Chimera, but they don't get one assigned as a dedicated transport and have to hope that some other unit's transport can come over and fetch them if necessary.

HWTs in infantry squads, on the other hand, are representing the squad's own support weapon that moves along with the unit (even if it makes the weapon less effective) rather than a dedicated heavy weapon unit. If the unit they're part of gets a transport then the HWT comes along for the ride. If the unit doesn't get a transport then the HWT is walking along next to them. It should also be noted that ABG HWS (taken as separate heavy support units) get a mandatory Chimera to carry them around, as the ABG list represents a fully mechanized army.

Peregrine wrote:Because HWS are normally a static unit that can't shoot effectively if you move them in a transport. Fluff-wise if they have Chimeras (or, more likely, an unarmored truck or similar vehicle) they're used before the battle begins and the HWS begin the game already deployed where they're going to be. If there's a limited supply of Chimeras available (fluff-wise) they're going to be given to units that depend on transports for mobility: veterans, command squads, maybe basic platoon infantry if any Chimeras are left. Therefore you get the current situation: HWS are fully capable of embarking into a Chimera, but they don't get one assigned as a dedicated transport and have to hope that some other unit's transport can come over and fetch them if necessary.

Sadly, that doesn't explain for Special Weapon Squads which do not suffer from such movement situations, but are the exact opposite for penalties and range and could use that Chimera/Taurox.

I doubt a lot of thinking went in to this version of the Infantry Platoon's squads. Aside from removing the Commisar (rather stupid move, imo) and adding the Taurox as a Dedicated Transport, the Options list didn't really change that much.