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Thinking about a pure Tzeench daemons tournament list. What do you think to this? I have 10 points left to spend. Thinking about an extra lesser on a lord of change.

Also thinking about taking the last disc off of the 4th herald and putting him in a squad of horrors with the other herald, and then taking the locus that means double blue horrors.

Here it is:

Formation: Omniscient oracles.
Fateweaver (Warlord)
Lord of change, level 3, grimoire, lesser
Lord of change, level 3, impossible robes, lesser

Formation: Heralds anarchic
Herald, level 3, disc, paradox
Herald, level 3, disc, Locus of conjuration
Herald, level 3, disc
Herald, level 2, disc

CAD
Herald,
10 horrors
10 horrors
9 screamers (all disc heralds go here.)

Since the LoCs are going to be doing a lot of CC heavy lifting you really, REALLY need 2x Greater rewards on each.
I would put Grimoire on one of the Disc Heralds instead. For the points to add the rewards, I would drop the 4th Disc Herald entirely, but I think you'll have the points to give the CAD Herald a disc, so you can still have 4 disc Heralds total. You may even be able to bump those Pinks up to 11 and regain the WC lost by dropping the Herald

Ok. Update with ideas above.

Formations -

Omniscient oracles
Fateweaver - warlord
Lord of change, level 3, impossible robes, 2x greater rewards, 1x lesser reward
Lord of change, level 3, 2x greater rewards, 1x lesser reward.

Heralds anarchic
Herald, level 3, disc, paradox
Herald, level 3, disc, locus of conjuration
Herald, level 3, disc, grimoire

CAD

HQ - Herald, disc

Troops - 10 pink horrors
Troops - 10 pink horrors

Fast Attack - 9 screamers (All heralds go here).

25 warp charge now. And 1850 on the nose.

Is this a summoning list?

 Whitebeard wrote:
Is this a summoning list?

No. Although there will be a degree of summoning, that's not the primary purpose. How come you ask?

Yes, I like the list now. You'll get much more out of the LoCs.

I don't recommend putting all 4 Heralds in the Screamers in every game. In some of them, sure. But to be tactically flexible, you may have occasion to put a Herald in each Pink Horror unit. This could encourage players to actually waste shooting at the Pinks, thus spawning new units for you.

If the Grimiore & Conjuration Heralds get all the buff spells you need, then they are the only 2 that need to be with the Screamers, leaving the Paradox and vanilla Heralds to start with the Pinks and spread your eggs out into more baskets. They can then be use to turboboost to objectives and not be locked in combat like the Screamers probably will be.
You may eventually have all the Heralds join the Screamers (the vanilla Herald is expendable to accept challenges for example, although you can always just decline)

The point is, don't always go into a game thinking that all the Heralds must join the Screamers. Roll your powers, analyze the mission, then decide where they go.

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 Galef wrote:
Yes, I like the list now. You'll get much more out of the LoCs.

I don't recommend putting all 4 Heralds in the Screamers in every game. In some of them, sure. But to be tactically flexible, you may have occasion to put a Herald in each Pink Horror unit. This could encourage player to actually waste shooting at the Pinks, thus spawning new units for you.

If the Grimiore & Conjuration Heralds get all the buff spells you need, then they are the only 2 the need to be with the Screamers, leaving the Paradox and vanilla Herald to start with the Pinks and spread your eggs out into more baskets. They can then be use to turboboost to objectives and not be lockied in combat like the Screamers probably will be.
You may eventually have all the Heralds join the Screamers (the vanilla Herald is expendable to accept challenges for example, although you can always just decline)

The point is, don't always go into a game thinking the all the Heralds must join the Screamers. Roll your powers, analyze the mission, then decide where they go.

-

Cheers dude. I haven't ever played more than one herald before. And mono tzeench is kind of new to me too.

So, a bit of help? Who rolls for what powers wise?

I would say the Paradox Herald always rolls Malefic so you can guarantee a Summoning power on 5 dice, or guarantee Curse Earth goes off. I would also roll Malefic on at least 1 LoC, preferably if one of them rolled the 4+ FNP reward, since you can take FNP against Perils wounds and Malefic increases the chance of Perils because of the amount of dice needed.

The biggest thing is that someone NEEEEEDS Curse Earth. So if your first Herald and LoC don't roll that, keep rolling Malefic til you get it. Once CE is acquired, I'd have at least 1 Herald roll on Divination for Misfortune, Forebo....Forewar.... whichever on gives the 4++, and of course Prescience. Luckily Prescience is guaranteed because the Screamer will absolutely need it

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 Khaine's Wrath wrote:

 Whitebeard wrote:
Is this a summoning list?

No. Although there will be a degree of summoning, that's not the primary purpose. How come you ask?

Was just wondering what exactly in that list was going to be dealing the damage and taking the hits.

In 1850 is just seems like a very small force. If the psychic phase doesn't bless you with luck, it seems like it will get rolled over.

I am by no means an expert, I just started using Tzeentch/Thousand Sons.

 Whitebeard wrote:

 Khaine's Wrath wrote:

 Whitebeard wrote:
Is this a summoning list?

No. Although there will be a degree of summoning, that's not the primary purpose. How come you ask?

Was just wondering what exactly in that list was going to be dealing the damage and taking the hits.

In 1850 is just seems like a very small force. If the psychic phase doesn't bless you with luck, it seems like it will get rolled over.

I am by no means an expert, I just started using Tzeentch/Thousand Sons.

Oh ok. No worries. I'll expand.

Almost everything can get flickering fire. Meaning mass strength 5 fire power. Screamers are no slouch in melee and can hurt what they fly over. The lords of change with lesser rewards can be absolutely brutal in melee.

The change discipline is pretty good. And that's where most of the fire power comes from. Especially Fateweaver. He knows all of the discipline and so can fire a d shot. Hoping another LoC gets that too. That's 2 D shots hitting on 2's with re rolls and wounding on 2's with re rolls. Of course, turn one lends itself to summoning. So horrors for more warp charge and more flickering fire, plague marines for touch of rust, bloodletters for MEQ. Also, burning chariots and skull cannons are no slouch. Plus more screamers. There's always good stuff to summon. If a horror unit can summon a d thirster then win win. The other nonus with a turn 1/2 summon is ending up with ~300-500 points of extra units. The game starts to be played at a handicap. The lords can land by that point, and if they charge they're batteries for the fire power.

This is mostly theory on my part. And based on. I practice. This is how I see it working. I'm relatively new to daemons of Tzeench myself. But I think it could be epically good.

Str D weapons do not roll to wound. You can't reroll the damage table for your str D powers.

A couple things to note:
1) as above, D does not roll "to wound" so the Oracle bonus does not apply.
2) The Magnus FAQ on Horrors (which you should use since you are using Magnus formations) says Horrors cannot access Malefic. So your example of Horrors summoning a Thirster cannot happen. Your Horrors will need to roll on Change, which is fine for them.

Otherwise it's a great list that I am tempted to try, even though I am a strict "undivided" Daemon player.

-

 Galef wrote:
A couple things to note:
1) as above, D does not roll "to wound" so the Oracle bonus does not apply.
2) The Magnus FAQ on Horrors (which you should use since you are using Magnus formations) says Horrors cannot access Malefic. So your example of Horrors summoning a Thirster cannot happen. Your Horrors will need to roll on Change, which is fine for them.

Otherwise it's a great list that I am tempted to try, even though I am a strict "undivided" Daemon player.

-

Thanks for those points.

I genuinely believed it would affect the D weapons. I was convinced that rolling on the Destroyer table was the equivalent to rolling to wound. However, I'll accept that point if that's true.

As for the horrors, I thought all daemons had access to malefic? I believe that was assumed. I didn't realise the Magnus book stopped that. So thanks again. I'd much rather get the rules right the first time around.

Well, yes, all psykers have access to Malefic unless noted otherwise, like Nids & GKs.
The Magnus book does not state otherwise, leading to some including myself to believe that RAW Horrors can still Summon. But the FAQ for the book does state otherwise, so there you go.

An interesting bit is that the FAQ only says PINK horrors cannot access Malefic. It says nothing about Blues & Brimstones, so RAW they should be able to. This is probably not how you should play it though as the intent is crystal clear and it will lead to arguments if you try. Just be happy with them being objective holding, new unit creating, warp charge batteries and move on.

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Haha. Brilliant. To be fair, I was tempted to go the flickering fire route with them anyway. Summoning was just a thought. Where might his pink horror FAQ be found my good friend?

Here ya go:
https://www.warhammer-community.com/2016/12/03/wrath-of-magnus-faq/

I think you are on the right track not focusing on Summoning. Summoning with definitely be a big part of this list, but dealing damage should be your first concern.
You should try to Conjure at least 1 new unit per turn, either before or after you damage powers.

Excellent. Thank you. It actually calms the split rule down a little too.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Yeah, I was going to go for maybe 2 units turn one. 3 at a push. And then 1 on every turn from then on. I mostly want to be aggressive with it