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Better than expected, didn't think it would have 1 and 3 hards, thought it would have 1-2 more greens then what it does have but it still isn't bad with systems officer on stridan


edit: Credit goes to fly casual on facebook for pics

Man, that 1 hard. Even if it is red, It'll really help keep those guns pointed in the right direction.

 Mathieu Raymond wrote:
Man, that 1 hard. Even if it is red, It'll really help keep those guns pointed in the right direction.

Yarp, that's making me to re-consider my Deci > Upsy stance

That's a pretty good dial (For a bus), especially considering that it has access to both advanced sensors and pattern analyzer.

and Coordinate

Similar to the Ghost, but with a Stall instead of a 5k.

This will probably fly similar to the Hound's Tooth: a big brick that you try to keep pointed at enemy ships, so that it can unleash party bus shenanigans. And like the Hound's Tooth, it will have a hell of a time trying to turn around and re-join the fight after the first engagement.

Except I don't think it can pile on the stress tokens the way Zuckuss lets you. So you'll be able to call those hard turns.

What a ridiculous dial. Not only does it get the white 90* turns, it gets 1-turns and 3-turns at all. We've been playtesting it on the assumption of just the white 2-turns and it's been very strong, WTF is FFG thinking giving it an even better dial than that. Wave 10 really feels like things are getting out of control with power creep.

 Peregrine wrote:
What a ridiculous dial. Not only does it get the white 90* turns, it gets 1-turns and 3-turns at all. We've been playtesting it on the assumption of just the white 2-turns and it's been very strong, WTF is FFG thinking giving it an even better dial than that. Wave 10 really feels like things are getting out of control with power creep.

It's a good dial but I fail to see what's so broken about it. It's 30 points base for a ship that can't K-turn. For 5 points more you get the Lothal Rebel which trades a red stop for a 5k and has 4 additional hull. The YV666 generic is a point less, with a slightly inferior dial, and a dice less attack but has the valuable 180 degree arc. They all feel like they're priced about right in comparison to one another.

So I'm curious - what have you uncovered in your playtesting that suggests such reckless power creep?

I think it's the dial, combined with the other slots, than can really turn this into a nasty ship.

 Mathieu Raymond wrote:
I think it's the dial, combined with the other slots, than can really turn this into a nasty ship.

Oh I've got no doubt that it's strong, I just can't figure out what is so good about it. I can't see that it's anywhere near as bad as the contracted scout or pre-nerf phantom (the worst examples of power creep we've seen).

Well as you said: pre-nerf. That was, what, 4 waves ago? We have to learn to let it go. Contracted scout had its time in the limelight, but the change to Deadeye has adjusted it somewhat.

I think a gun as powerful as the Ghost that can use tech, buff surrounding ships and almost turn on the spot in a single turn is going to be a very good ship. With an EU, of course, but still.

Vargas79 wrote:
It's a good dial but I fail to see what's so broken about it.

The main issue is how it compares to the basic shuttle as a Palpatine carrier. Because let's be realistic here, as long as Palpatine remains in the game a ship with two crew slots is carrying him. For a fairly modest point increase you upgrade the 29 point Palp shuttle to a 4-dice gun, add more HP, and give it a dial that removes the biggest weakness (the red 90* turns). So essentially you take the biggest weakness of Palp aces, the fact that you're spending almost a third of your list on a ship with no direct contribution to the fight, and replace it with a ship that is a major threat. Maybe it's not so scary if you're taking in something besides a Palp aces list, but when that archetype is so consistently a major element of the metagame you have to assume that the new shuttle is going to be used that way.

The secondary issue is Kylo Ren. The condition effect being able to ignore shields is IMO both broken and not fun. And for a few points over a generic you can upgrade your Palpmobile to Kylo Ren and completely remove "just kill Palpatine first" as an option. It's possible to beat it, yes, but the lists that are best against Kylo Ren are Palp aces lists that can roll enough green dice to never take blinded pilot and/or PS 0. And some lists are pretty much an auto-loss against those automatic crits. If you're going to have a ship with such a ridiculously powerful pilot ability it needs to have some major weaknesses to balance it out, and there really isn't one here.

 Peregrine wrote:

Vargas79 wrote:
It's a good dial but I fail to see what's so broken about it.

The main issue is how it compares to the basic shuttle as a Palpatine carrier. Because let's be realistic here, as long as Palpatine remains in the game a ship with two crew slots is carrying him. For a fairly modest point increase you upgrade the 29 point Palp shuttle to a 4-dice gun, add more HP, and give it a dial that removes the biggest weakness (the red 90* turns). So essentially you take the biggest weakness of Palp aces, the fact that you're spending almost a third of your list on a ship with no direct contribution to the fight, and replace it with a ship that is a major threat. Maybe it's not so scary if you're taking in something besides a Palp aces list, but when that archetype is so consistently a major element of the metagame you have to assume that the new shuttle is going to be used that way.

The secondary issue is Kylo Ren. The condition effect being able to ignore shields is IMO both broken and not fun. And for a few points over a generic you can upgrade your Palpmobile to Kylo Ren and completely remove "just kill Palpatine first" as an option. It's possible to beat it, yes, but the lists that are best against Kylo Ren are Palp aces lists that can roll enough green dice to never take blinded pilot and/or PS 0. And some lists are pretty much an auto-loss against those automatic crits. If you're going to have a ship with such a ridiculously powerful pilot ability it needs to have some major weaknesses to balance it out, and there really isn't one here.

Yeah I almost caveated my post with "aside from Kylo's ability". The ability has considerable scope for a negative play experience. Time will tell.

Otherwise I'm not overly concerned by someone pumping 38% of their points minimum into a fixed arc ship that can't kturn or sloop.






Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Mathieu Raymond wrote:
Well as you said: pre-nerf. That was, what, 4 waves ago? We have to learn to let it go. Contracted scout had its time in the limelight, but the change to Deadeye has adjusted it somewhat.

Let what to go? It's a reference point to power creep. Im not hung up on it.

Whilst the upsilon's cost increase is definitely worth it, I question calling it modest.

9 points - assuming you're calling it a starkiller base pilot - is a non trivial chunk of an aces squad, because a 38 points shuttle only leaves 31 points a piece for your 'aces' - meaning one or both comes up seriously short on their traditional toys. Personally I'd probably drop one to omega leader (cheap and good value) and hope the upsilon's guns make up the difference, but be under no illusion that upgrading a lamda to an upsilon won't change the squads makeup and use dramatically.

certainly "palpatine & 2 defenders" is possible, for example, but vessery and ryad won't be flying them.


dont get me wrong - the dial is better than I'd hoped and pattern analyser essentially acts as advanced sensors without taking up the valuable systems slot.

It's an expensive ship to fit into a list.

locarno24 wrote:
9 points - assuming you're calling it a starkiller base pilot - is a non trivial chunk of an aces squad, because a 38 points shuttle only leaves 31 points a piece for your 'aces' - meaning one or both comes up seriously short on their traditional toys. Personally I'd probably drop one to omega leader (cheap and good value) and hope the upsilon's guns make up the difference, but be under no illusion that upgrading a lamda to an upsilon won't change the squads makeup and use dramatically.

Yes, of course you have to make changes, with OLeader being the obvious answer. But you get a huge upgrade in power for 9 points. Remember, a HLC costs 7 points to upgrade from 3 dice to 4, and it can't get crits or work at range 1. For an extra 2 points over the HLC you get a better HLC and +2 HP and a vastly superior dial. I don't think you really appreciate how much of a difference those white 2-turns make. Right now the Palp shuttle maybe gets one decent pass before becoming a 29 point paperweight outside of the Palpatine buff, since you can't take consecutive 90* turns pretty much any ship in the game can out-fly you effortlessly and prevent the shuttle from ever being a factor again. Now you have the ability to do consecutive 90* turns (with actions on both turns!), matching the turn rate of any ship that doesn't boost every turn. Having playtested it this is a huge improvement in its ability to get back in the fight, and when it does it brings a 4-dice gun with it.

Now, is it so blatantly overpowered that every single Palp aces list will take it? Of course not, there's still an argument that the more expensive aces are overpowered enough to make up for having a weaker shuttle. But it's a huge step up in power to have that available as an option, and the existence of even more overpowered options does not mean that it's balanced or reasonable.

Can I ask;

In people's opinion is Ren better or worse than Hux?

 captain bloody fists wrote:
Can I ask;

In people's opinion is Ren better or worse than Hux?

Crew? Impossible to answer, they have completely different roles.

Me personally I think that Hux is slightly better ability wise.

 captain bloody fists wrote:
Me personally I think that Hux is slightly better ability wise.

Again, you can't compare the two. Kylo Ren is an almost auto-win counter to lists like rebel regen and Dengaroo, but requires a list that is built to deliver the crits. Hux is an efficient swarm buff, but obviously requires a swarm list. They have two completely different purposes and go in two completely different kinds of lists. Comparing the two makes about as much sense as comparing Howlrunner vs. R2-D2 for your scum list.

 captain bloody fists wrote:
It's an expensive ship to fit into a list.

It's not that bad, if you can still squeeze this into a list. The Upsilon is such a big threat that it can really support the other two.

 NH Gunsmith wrote:

 captain bloody fists wrote:
It's an expensive ship to fit into a list.

It's not that bad, if you can still squeeze this into a list. The Upsilon is such a big threat that it can really support the other two.

you're right. that was something i knocked up quickly for the discussion. i've since managed to get this:

Vader
Twin Ion
X1 Title
Adaptability
Advanced Targeting PC

Oleader
Stealth
Adaptability
Comm Relay

Kylo Ren
Palp

100pts neat


it's probably not the best loadout but for the points left over from Ren it might do alright. Plus i like the idea of coordinate on the shuttle. Vader can have all of the actions on his bar...