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I came up with this theory whilst painting Brazen Claws today,weirdly!
Anyway I got to thinking about the Legion (I have a lot of them;about 150+!) and I came up with this bizarre idea about them.
What if their history goes much further back?No, further than that.
What if they are one of the two missing legions?
It is only hinted at that they 'might' be the Fire Hawks chapter,nothing has been set in stone. Better still, are the Fire Hawks actually one of the original chapters?
The point that is clear is that something went badly wrong with them/this is also suggested as a possible reason for at least one of the legions being omitted from records.
Maybe they are still around?
Nah. If you want the original fluff, they're the remnants of the Fire Hawks who contracted a warp contagion.
Newer fluff makes the matter more vague and points to several possibilities.
In Courage and Honour for example, the Legion appears and one of the members bears Ultramarine insignia. The Legionnaire is heavily hinted to be Captain Ventanus of the Ultramarine's Legion.
Recently in Master of Mankind when the Emperor joins the fight in the webway, he briefly summons forth Space Marines made of smoke and fire like the Legion, including Ferrus Manus.
Yeah, Master of Mankind kinda heavily suggests the Emperor's equivalent of daemons for the LotD, which was a highlight for me as that was my preferred interpretation.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/12/14 22:04:38
The Fire Hawks are Legion of the Damned. Not all Legion of the Damned are Fire Hawks.
So like a weird, abstract, warp-tainted version of Deathwatch?
In the same way that an endless horde of the undead is similar to the United Nations. Like marines that die in strange, warp-related circumstances may find their soul as part of the Legion. Thus in my headcanon, the Fire Hawks are the largest single group of marines to become one with the Legion, but that the existence of the Legion preceded them. As for what caused the initial creation of the Legion, I imagine that's something else entirely.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/12/14 22:50:27
The Fire Hawks are Legion of the Damned. Not all Legion of the Damned are Fire Hawks.
So like a weird, abstract, warp-tainted version of Deathwatch?
In the same way that an endless horde of the undead is similar to the United Nations. Like marines that die in strange, warp-related circumstances may find their soul as part of the Legion. Thus in my headcanon, the Fire Hawks are the largest single group of marines to become one with the Legion, but that the existence of the Legion preceded them. As for what caused the initial creation of the Legion, I imagine that's something else entirely.
Ahhh i see. That excellent theory makes for some interesting modelling ideas.
2016/12/15 02:18:25
Subject: Re:Offbeat Idea on the Legion of the Damned
Spoilers to "Legion of the Damned" and "Flame and Damnation".
Spoiler:
In "Legion of the Damned" the marines are depicted as ghosts/spectres that can not be harmed. It is also strongly implied, that the main character (who goes on to become chapter master) will join the legion when his time is up.
- but in one of the 6 short stories (by six different authors ) that makes up "Fire and Damnation", a legionare is stabbed in the chest and killed by a CSM. This causes the legionnaire to "blow up" and kill the CSM.
And in one of the other short stories (Animus Malorum), a captain wakes up in a hospitalbed to find a lib AND a legionnaire standing next to him. The legionnaire has alredy explanied the lib that the legion is taking losses, and so "a price must be payed" for their help. As the cap accepts, the legionares respond by killing everyone (the good guys) in the facility - staff, marines, the lib. Everyone...
40k lore in a nutshell.
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2016/12/18 14:34:53
Tyranid fanboy.
Been around since 3rd edition.
2016/12/17 18:31:44
Subject: Re:Offbeat Idea on the Legion of the Damned
That's part of the fun though; someone can pick a chapter based on the basic lore, and then adjust it to be their own thing. Hence the whole, "everything is propaganda" thing.
This, of course, means my friend can be all "Dark angels can do no wrong and they are the best", and I can look him in the eye and say, "Dark angels are Heretics and need to be purged." It's a good thing.
Badablack wrote: 40k starts with the question, “Who is worse, Satan or the Nazis?” And goes from there. It’s a big colorful ball pit full of horrible people screaming and shooting each other.
chromedog wrote:From the Fuggly DEldar of the time, before they let Jes goodwin have his good and proper way with the entire faction design.
I don't want the best army, just one that isn't an exercise in picking up my models by turn 3.
HoundsofDemos wrote: The game doesn't need super space marines, it needs more variety.
Badablack wrote: 40k starts with the question, “Who is worse, Satan or the Nazis?” And goes from there. It’s a big colorful ball pit full of horrible people screaming and shooting each other.
PenitentJake wrote: It doesn't matter if you're not dominating the game; if you have 3-4 x as many models and options than the rest of us and you're still getting new kits, we're still gonna rip on the faction. If I had 100 + Drukhari kits all in plastic to choose from, or 100 + Sisters kits, I think I'd be more likely to be receptive to Space Marine player's complaints about anything.
2016/12/17 19:46:23
Subject: Re:Offbeat Idea on the Legion of the Damned
That's part of the fun though; someone can pick a chapter based on the basic lore, and then adjust it to be their own thing. Hence the whole, "everything is propaganda" thing.
This, of course, means my friend can be all "Dark angels can do no wrong and they are the best", and I can look him in the eye and say, "Dark angels are Heretics and need to be purged." It's a good thing.
This
Plus, it's a legion of quasi-daemonic ghost-marines. Who's to say they're in any way consistent in whether they can be stabbed to death or not...
icn1982 wrote: I suggest we send a team of investigative reporters to find out the truth
Now that's a fluff story I'd love to read
Reporter: So, what's life like on the front lines? This is your opportunity to let the citizens of the Emperor know the real truth behind why you're here, risking your life against the foul heretics and xenos.
Krieg Trooper 69754: ...
Reporter: ...do you think he heard me?
Krieg Trooper 69754: ...
Reporter: ...
Krieg Trooper 69754 shoulders lasrifle, turns about-face and marches off to the front
That's part of the fun though; someone can pick a chapter based on the basic lore, and then adjust it to be their own thing. Hence the whole, "everything is propaganda" thing.
This, of course, means my friend can be all "Dark angels can do no wrong and they are the best", and I can look him in the eye and say, "Dark angels are Heretics and need to be purged." It's a good thing.
This
Plus, it's a legion of quasi-daemonic ghost-marines. Who's to say they're in any way consistent in whether they can be stabbed to death or not...
That I can live with.
- but the fact that they now need sacrifices, is just beyond stupid..
Tyranid fanboy.
Been around since 3rd edition.
2016/12/18 11:22:25
Subject: Re:Offbeat Idea on the Legion of the Damned
That's part of the fun though; someone can pick a chapter based on the basic lore, and then adjust it to be their own thing. Hence the whole, "everything is propaganda" thing.
This, of course, means my friend can be all "Dark angels can do no wrong and they are the best", and I can look him in the eye and say, "Dark angels are Heretics and need to be purged." It's a good thing.
This
Plus, it's a legion of quasi-daemonic ghost-marines. Who's to say they're in any way consistent in whether they can be stabbed to death or not...
That I can live with.
- but the fact that they now need sacrifices, is just beyond stupid..
Huh, hadn't heard that before. Do you have a quote?
Depending on context, it could be that they're trying to frame them as sort of 'lesser daemons of the Emperor', given that he's essentially a Warp God.
That's part of the fun though; someone can pick a chapter based on the basic lore, and then adjust it to be their own thing. Hence the whole, "everything is propaganda" thing.
This, of course, means my friend can be all "Dark angels can do no wrong and they are the best", and I can look him in the eye and say, "Dark angels are Heretics and need to be purged." It's a good thing.
This
Plus, it's a legion of quasi-daemonic ghost-marines. Who's to say they're in any way consistent in whether they can be stabbed to death or not...
That I can live with.
- but the fact that they now need sacrifices, is just beyond stupid..
Or maybe in that one instance, it wasn't actually the Legion, but a daemon posing as one of the Legion.
2016/12/18 13:47:18
Subject: Re:Offbeat Idea on the Legion of the Damned
That's part of the fun though; someone can pick a chapter based on the basic lore, and then adjust it to be their own thing. Hence the whole, "everything is propaganda" thing.
This, of course, means my friend can be all "Dark angels can do no wrong and they are the best", and I can look him in the eye and say, "Dark angels are Heretics and need to be purged." It's a good thing.
This
Plus, it's a legion of quasi-daemonic ghost-marines. Who's to say they're in any way consistent in whether they can be stabbed to death or not...
That I can live with.
- but the fact that they now need sacrifices, is just beyond stupid..
Huh, hadn't heard that before. Do you have a quote?
Depending on context, it could be that they're trying to frame them as sort of 'lesser daemons of the Emperor', given that he's essentially a Warp God.
Lesser Daemons need to be summoned
Check my first post.
You really need to read said story too fully appreciate the stupidity of it..
That's part of the fun though; someone can pick a chapter based on the basic lore, and then adjust it to be their own thing. Hence the whole, "everything is propaganda" thing.
This, of course, means my friend can be all "Dark angels can do no wrong and they are the best", and I can look him in the eye and say, "Dark angels are Heretics and need to be purged." It's a good thing.
This
Plus, it's a legion of quasi-daemonic ghost-marines. Who's to say they're in any way consistent in whether they can be stabbed to death or not...
That I can live with.
- but the fact that they now need sacrifices, is just beyond stupid..
Or maybe in that one instance, it wasn't actually the Legion, but a daemon posing as one of the Legion.
I wasn't. The legion had already helped the unnamed chapter win the day. But apparently, the legion were/is taking losses, so a price had to be paid..
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2016/12/18 14:02:29
Tyranid fanboy.
Been around since 3rd edition.
2016/12/18 13:56:58
Subject: Re:Offbeat Idea on the Legion of the Damned
Andersp90 wrote: I wasn't. The legion had already helped the unnamed chapter win the day. But apparently, the legion is taking losses, so a price had to be paid..
Just because it helped, doesn't mean it wasn't a daemon. Or that the chapter they were helping ever really existed in the first place.
2016/12/18 14:33:35
Subject: Re:Offbeat Idea on the Legion of the Damned
Andersp90 wrote: I wasn't. The legion had already helped the unnamed chapter win the day. But apparently, the legion is taking losses, so a price had to be paid..
Just because it helped, doesn't mean it wasn't a daemon. Or that the chapter they were helping ever really existed in the first place.
It wasn't a daemon..
This is what the arthour has to say about the story: "Interesting point - my short story 'Animus Malorum' has Space Marines of an unnamed Chapter failing to impress the Legion."
It makes even less sense to me now....
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2016/12/18 16:02:48
That's not the first example of the Legion exacting a price, not by a long shot. The flavour text for Sergeant Centurius has the same thing (although that might simply be to hide the secret that the Legion is undead), and that was written over 20 years ago.
I've always been partial to the idea that the Emperor has daemons, just like the other warp powers; the Legion of the Damned, Celestine, the Sanguinor and the other Living Saints such as Sabbat...
If you want to look at it that way, the Avatars of Khaine and Phoenix Lords are perhaps an Eldar expression of a similar idea.
