Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Working in game retail in the UK, I just had a profoundly uncomfortable experience, with a person calling in, who had preordered the Bloodborne card game, and was livid that she hadn't received the item yet. There's something screwy going on with that product, some sort of licencing issue, that delays the UK release. Anyways, this customer was threatening to take legal action, likening us taking preorder payment (and it's clearly stated on our page that products that haven't been released yet will be sent out as soon as we have them in stock) to robbing her.

The likeness is obviously absurd, but it raises the question of what is legal and what isn't, and since this is quite a new phenomenon, what exists in a sort of gray zone between the two, when it comes to these sorts of situations.

Basically, what are the legalities surrounding preorders and delayed content? Are companies not allowed to essentially hold money in escrow, for a product that they are intending to deliver as soon as they are made available to the shop, as long as this is clearly communicated ("THIS IS A PREORDER ITEM AND WILL BE SENT OUT AS SOON AS IT IS RELEASED"), followed by the last estimates given to us by the supplier? Or was the customer in question just so frothing-at-the-mouth outraged over retail not being able to work magic, that she took a liberal, crossing the border into fantasy territory, reading of the legal code, just to have something to bash someone over the head with?

She signed a contract which exchanges money for goods.


So long as you don't intentionally hold the goods you ain't breaking the contract.

So she's talking gas, tell them they can refund it if they really want to do so.

If she asked for her money back, then you'd be legally required to return it to her as people have the right to cancel an order from the moment they first hand over the money up until 14 days after receiving the goods (and longer if the product is faulty/not as described etc.).

If the product hasn't been released then you can't send it to her, so she can either wait or cancel her order and get a refund.

That is what I thought as well, and finally I managed to get through to her that I would sort her out with a refund as soon as possible, as per standard procedure. But while she was ranting and raving and threatening some sort of nondescript legal action, I was well tempted to just put the phone down, let her shout herself out, then pick it up again, with a nonchalant "So, now that we're both done being childish, do you want me to sort out the problem?". Some people just shouldn't be allowed on the internet, as they clearly aren't responsible enough to read the page before they press "Buy".

Sounds like Bloodborne is essential for life.

Apparently so :|

Possibly sounds like someone who planned on giving this as a Christmas gift...note current date on calendar...and is maybe venting frustration stemming from holiday pressures. Be empathetic, as accommodative as possible and explain the situation dispassionately. Deal with the matter professionally and don't take it personally. If you're going to be in a job/career that deals with customers then this thing is going to happen occasionally and you can't allow yourself to get rattled by it.

As said above, someone stressed out by present giving expectations.

Clearly as retailer you are not responsible for making the game. If it does not arrive from your supplier in time, you have to give the customer a refund if that is what they want. There isn't anything else really that you can do.

When ordering bottles for my customers, I always want them I cannot guarantee a date as it may be out of stock at the warehouse. However I don't usually take pre-payment so there isn't a problem in that respect.

I'm always slightly wary of the pre-order and take payment first approach and from a customer perspective think that if it isn't currently shipping no money should be taken until you can guarantee it is. The worst case scenario for the customer is the retailer takes the money and then goes bust.

From a legal perspective as long as your T&Cs tell them this is what you are going to do then it's fine to take money up front (even if possibly questionable from a social perspective). What I'm not sure has been answered is with regards interest on the money. If you said took payment a year before a product was released then you are effectively earning interest on the money. If the customer gets fed up and cancels the order after 12 months is the retailer then responsible for returning any interest made on the money (as they are effectively holding the money on the customers behalf) and no sale has been undertaken and I doubt the company are allowed to benefit from a customers money in this way?

If the payment is passed onto the supplier at the time of ordering, it gets worse.
The retailer is probably obliged to refund the customer, and then reclaim it from the supplier. This could take a long time, and the Ts and Cs will be very different.
Taking a deposit for the pre-order is how I remember it happening before, but these days, full payment is taken.

 Whirlwind wrote:
The worst case scenario for the customer is the retailer takes the money and then goes bust.

AKA pulling a Maelstrom?

Just refund and be done.

Just out of curiosity, let's say the delivery was held up by a different issue than a licensing debate, but one which you have a similar amount of control over that might put this problem in perspective.

Let's say the container ship delivering these games to the UK ended up sinking. All crew ended up safely rescued with no serious injuries or trauma, so no human lives were lost and no one even got hurt, but a large shipment of goods were lost at sea and will gradually wash up on various shorelines over the next few years as they drift wherever the seas take them.

The manufacturer is going to produce an extra shipment that will be placed on the next available ship to the UK, but the delay means that by the time they arrive, they will be late, and customers will not have received their preorders on schedule and demand to know why.

I mean, there's a reason why "act of God" is a standard clause in contracts, even in secular countries, and covers a wide range of events, some of which are in fact the deliberate actions of humans. It basically is legalese for, "Life happens, let's not screw ANYONE over because of things totally beyond their control, regardless of what actually happened, okay?"


Automatically Appended Next Post:

artificerhex wrote:
That is what I thought as well, and finally I managed to get through to her that I would sort her out with a refund as soon as possible, as per standard procedure. But while she was ranting and raving and threatening some sort of nondescript legal action, I was well tempted to just put the phone down, let her shout herself out, then pick it up again, with a nonchalant "So, now that we're both done being childish, do you want me to sort out the problem?". Some people just shouldn't be allowed on the internet, as they clearly aren't responsible enough to read the page before they press "Buy".

You're new to working in retail, I'm guessing?