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Hey guys,

So here's a list I'm keen to try, but I'm keen to here your thoughts on it before I use it:

Skyhammer Annihilation Force [ Black Templars Chapter Tactics ] [ From the 'Angels of Death' Supplement ]

Devastator Squad [ 125 Points ]
4x Multi-Meltas
Amorium Cherub

Devastator Squad [ 155 Points ]
4x Lascannons
Veteran Sergeant
Amorium Cherub

Drop Pod [ 45 Points ]
Teleport Homer

Drop Pod [ 45 Points ]
Teleport Homer

Assault Squad [ 120 Points ]
5x Jump Packs
2x Flamers
Veteran Sergeant
Power Sword

Assault Squad [ 120 Points ]
5x Jump Packs
2x Flamers
Veteran Sergeant
Power Sword

Unbound Element [ Black Templars Chapter Tactics ]

Captain [ 205 Points ]
Chapter Master
Terminator Armour
The Primarch's Wrath
Thunder Hammer

Terminator Assault Squad [ 275 Points ]
7x Terminators
3x Thunderhammer/Storm Shield


Terminator Assault Squad [ 320 Points ]
8x Terminators
4x Thunderhammer/Storm Shield

Land Raider Crusader [ 260 Points ]
Multi-Melta

Land Raider Crusader [ 260 Points ]
Multi-Melta

Vanguard Veteran Squad [ 175 Points ]
4x Dual Lightning Claws
Veteran Sergeant
Relic Blade

Unbound Element [ Undecided Chapter Tactics ]

Centurion Devastator Squad [ 260 Points ]
3x Grav-Cannon w/ Grav-Amp
Veteran Sergeant
Omniscope

Drop Pod [ 45 Points ]
Teleport Homer

Thunderfire Cannon [ 100 Points ]

-----------------------------------------------------

The idea with this list is close the gap quite quickly and absolutely wreck face with a whole heap of Heavy Weapons shots before the Terminators, Vanguard Veterans and Assault Squads work on the cleanup. The Land Raider Crusaders are there as a delivery method as well as act as some fire support alongside the Thunderfire Cannon.

Thoughts?

Cheers Guys

One thing you should do at the very least is to take the vets and organize them into a 1st company TF. You have 3 squads of them, terminators can take the LRCs as DTs.

That leaves you with the captain, cents, a pod, and the TFC in the unbound portion. If you swap out the TFC for a pair of minimal scout squads to fill a CAD, you are bound.

Rather then LCs, you might want to take GCs for the skyhammer devs. Also, don’t bother with the beacons. They need to be on the table at the start of the turn to work, so won’t help the assault marines. and the terminators are in the LRCs (I’m guessing). The VVs should start on the table, and advance behind the LRs.

I’s like to see some AP2 in the VVs. Right now they are pure MEQ killers. Swap out some of the claws for axe/sword. Melta bomb on one or two if you have the points.

Get rid of the flamers on the assault squad. use them for assaulting not shooting or flaming thngs

XxDregosxX wrote:Get rid of the flamers on the assault squad. use them for assaulting not shooting or flaming thngs

I'd rather leave them in there because they're good at laying down a lot of potential wounds before the squad charges. I also feel that the Power Sword on the Vet Serg compensates in melee.

Nevelon wrote:One thing you should do at the very least is to take the vets and organize them into a 1st company TF. You have 3 squads of them, terminators can take the LRCs as DTs.

That leaves you with the captain, cents, a pod, and the TFC in the unbound portion. If you swap out the TFC for a pair of minimal scout squads to fill a CAD, you are bound.

Rather then LCs, you might want to take GCs for the skyhammer devs. Also, don’t bother with the beacons. They need to be on the table at the start of the turn to work, so won’t help the assault marines. and the terminators are in the LRCs (I’m guessing). The VVs should start on the table, and advance behind the LRs.

I’s like to see some AP2 in the VVs. Right now they are pure MEQ killers. Swap out some of the claws for axe/sword. Melta bomb on one or two if you have the points.

So I tried to take your suggestion and this is what I came up with:

The Skyhammer Annihilation Force [ Black Templars Chapter Tactics ] [ From the 'Angels of Death' Supplement ] from the OP remains the same. I'm inclined to leave the Lascannons in, but Grav-Cannons would probably do just as well if not better (depending on what I do with the squad). For now, I've left the Lascannons in. And yes, all the Terminators and the Captain are going in the Land Raider Crusaders.

The rest of the list is as follows:

1st Company Task Force [ Black Templars Chapter Tactics ]

Terminator Assault Squad [ 275 Points ]
7x Terminators
3x Thunderhammer/Storm Shield

Terminator Assault Squad [ 320 Points ]
8x Terminators
4x Thunderhammer/Storm Shield

Land Raider Crusader [ 260 Points ]
Multi-Melta

Land Raider Crusader [ 260 Points ]
Multi-Melta

Vanguard Veteran Squad [ 165 Points ]
5x Jump Packs
4x Power Axes
4x Storm Shields
Relic Blade


Combined Arms Detachment [ Black Templars Chapter Tactics ]

Captain [ 205 Points ]
Chapter Master
Terminator Armour
The Primarch's Wrath
Thunder Hammer

Scout Squad [ 67 Points ]
4x Sniper Rifles
1x Heavy Bolter

Scout Squad [ 67 Points ]
4x Sniper Rifles
1x Heavy Bolter

Centurion Devastator Squad [ 250 Points ]
2x Grav-Cannons w/ Grav-Amps
Omniscope

Drop Pod [ 50 Points ]
Deathwind Launcher


That brings the list to 2,499 Points

So with the Vanguard Veteran Squad, I actually listed the Jump Packs (which I forgot to do in the OP) and gave them a Power Axe/Storm Shield combo instead of the Dual Lightning Claws. I left the Relic Blade on the Sergeant because it has a good profile and it means the Sergeant still strikes at initiative. The Storm Shields should also help with their survivability since they will be footslogging it.

I left the CAD with Black Templars Chapter Tactics because I felt that not only would it be prudent to give my Warlord (the Captain) these CT's , but the Centurions may also find themselves in CC through one set of circumstances or another resulting from being deployed by Drop Pod. None of the other Chapter Tactics in the Vanilla SM Codex justifies denying the Captain and the Centurions Black Templars CT's in order to give the Scout Squads a set of bonuses. I also gave the Scouts the Heavy Bolters and Sniper Rifles so they could comfortably sit on an objective and lay down some decent fire. I also added the Deathwind Launcher in order to fill the last 15 points that I had available.

The advice to change the lascannons to grav is actually pretty good. Consider target priority for las: vehicles or MCs. If against vehicles, the MM that you already have are better. Against MCs, the MM is pretty much identical to the las, except against Eldar Wraith giants. If MM are equal or better in every circumstance, why are you even taking las?

Grav is good against all flavours of Marines (all their units), Tau (any of their good units), Eldar Aspects, Necrons (elite units), Tyranid MCs...you get the picture. Grav is good. Las is situational, and its biggest advantage is the long range, while its biggest detriment is the limited shots--only four. Being in a Pod, you don't care about range, so you should either be taking another set of MM for the armourbane, or Grav for the FIVE TIMES AS MANY SHOTS.

 Elric Greywolf wrote:
The advice to change the lascannons to grav is actually pretty good. Consider target priority for las: vehicles or MCs. If against vehicles, the MM that you already have are better. Against MCs, the MM is pretty much identical to the las, except against Eldar Wraith giants. If MM are equal or better in every circumstance, why are you even taking las?

Grav is good against all flavours of Marines (all their units), Tau (any of their good units), Eldar Aspects, Necrons (elite units), Tyranid MCs...you get the picture. Grav is good. Las is situational, and its biggest advantage is the long range, while its biggest detriment is the limited shots--only four. Being in a Pod, you don't care about range, so you should either be taking another set of MM for the armourbane, or Grav for the FIVE TIMES AS MANY SHOTS.

I guess what it comes down to is two things:

(1) In a 5-Man Squad, the difference between 4x Lascannons and 4x Grav-Cannons w/ Grav-Amps is 60 Points, 15 of which I can get by removing the 'Deathwind Launcher' on the Centurions' Drop Pod. Where would you suggest that I take the extra 45 Points from?

(2) I may be wrong about this, but I feel that the extra 12" of range that you get the with Lascannons allows you to either position them strategically in order to get the best shot (e.g. getting shots off against the rear armour of a key enemy vehicle) or to dump them on an objective and still be able to shoot the hell out of an important target. This only really applies to boards that have the dimensions 6'x4' (or have a larger area), but let's be honest - with a 2,500 Point Army on each side, we're not going to be playing on a board that's smaller in area than a 6'x4'.

For me, the bigger hurdle is (1). I'm definitely more keen to use Grav since Grav is not only very powerful but the formation also allows the Devastator Sqauds to have Relentless on Turn 1. What has stopped me is mostly Point (1) but also the fact that I have Grav equipped on the Centurions.