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A test for my Word Bearers - this army didn't have a lot of focus, but adding a Mastodon might well give them one!

Zardu joins the Gal Vorbak. The Chaplain joins the Terminators with assault weapons. All Gal Vorbak and Terminators go in the Mastodon, and the two tactical squads go in the Proteus'.

Mastodon and all tanks rumble forwards, while the Daemons stay in the backfield summoning extra bodies.

Legiones Astartes [ XVII: Word Bearers, Traitor]
Rite of War [The Dark Brethren]

Zardu Layak (175pts)

Legion Centurion (115pts) [Power Armour]
Consul [Chaplain, Burning Lore]

Gal Vorbak Dark Brethren (270pts) [6x Dark Brethren]
Dark Martyr [Power Weapon]

Legion Terminator Squad (231pts) [Chainfist, 2x Combi-Weapon, 4x Legion Terminators, Plasma Blaster, 2x Power Fist, Tartaros Terminator Armour with Combi-bolter and Power Weapon]
Legion Terminator Sergeant [Combi-Weapon]

Legion Terminator Squad (215pts) [Chainfist, 4x Legion Terminators, 3x Lightning Claw, Tartaros Terminator Armour with Combi-bolter and Power Weapon]
Legion Terminator Sergeant [Pair of Lightning Claws]

Legion Tactical Squad (130pts) [9x Legion Tactical Space Marines]
Legion Tactical Sergeant [Bolter, Melta Bombs]

Legion Tactical Squad (130pts) [9x Legion Tactical Space Marines]
Legion Tactical Sergeant [Bolter, Melta Bombs]

Legion Tactical Support Squad (100pts) [4x Legion Space Marines, Rotor Cannons]

Legion Tactical Support Squad (210pts) [Legion Rhino Armoured Carrier, 4x Legion Space Marines, Plasma Guns]

Legion Land Raider Battle Squadron (400pts)
Land Raider Proteus [Multi-melta]
Land Raider Proteus [Multi-melta]

Legion Mastadon Heavy Assault Transport (720pts) [4x Hunter-killer Missiles]


Daemonic Heralds (190pts)
Herald of Tzeentch [Psyker Level 3]
Herald of Tzeentch [Psyker Level 3]

Pink Horrors of Tzeentch (108pts) [12x Pink Horrors]



.

At first blush, there is a lot of MSU in this force, and it's all too easy to remove a MSU from the table, with the exception of your Terminators, but even then, Rapier Quad Mortars with Phosphex are a thing. I like the four scoring units, except only one has a Rhino, and they are all MSU. Do you really want to give a MSU infantry squad rotor cannons? Slavo 3/4, S3 AP 6? 30" range is nice, but... 20 shots if they stand still, 13 or 14 hit, but only 5 wound? Maybe one guy dies? Sorry, I do a lot of Math and Theory Hammer, and this post will probably have a lot of it. I almost think you would be better off with three Legion Tactical Squads of 15-20 models with Apothecaries instead of what you have listed. Given the other targets in your army (Mastidon, Land Raiders), that Rhino might just live long enough to be useful. So that's actually a pretty smart. I like it! Not so sure I like the five Plasma guys in it though. I have really bad luck with Get's Hot!

The Mastadon will be a fire magnet, so be aware of that. Spending 60 points for HK missles seems very inefficient for this model. Maybe save the points for Apothecaries? Can a Mastadon carry more than one unit? I don't know, I've never used or really read up on the Mastadon.

Talking about Apothecaries, those would be gold for your units. As I noted above, it's far too easy to remove a MSU from the table, even more so when they don't have FnP from an Apothecary.

The Terminators seem to be all over the place. If I understand correctly, they gain Rending on their weapons, so you are taking Lightning Claws to reroll wounds to maximize the Rending chances? And this unit is expected to get into Close Combat with what, exactly? Not other Terminators, because LC's are only AP3, and Rending is AP2 (so they still get invulnerable saves, and you'll never do enough Rending wounds for that to matter). Consider: On the charge, vs. another Terminator unit: 12 LC attacks and 4 power weapon attacks at WS4. So 6 LC's will hit, and 2 power weapons will hit. If you need 4's to wound, 5 LC's wound, and 1 power weapon wound, and 1 rend. Maybe 2, Shred messes up Mathhammer a bit. The other Termy squad should have a couple Chain Fists just in case. P-fist are great anti-infantry, but sometimes, you just need a Chain Fist. The advantage is you go at initiative, but if they have P-fists or it's a special unit of Terminators with what ever kind of special weapons they have...

The Land Raider Squad- ick. I know due to the Rite of War that you can only take one Heavy Support Choice, but a squad of Land Raiders? Vehicle coherency rules, shots carrying over to the other vehicle... yuck. Also, the great charm of a Proteus is that it can take three twin linked lascannons and a pintle multi-melta. As everything usaully has Armored Ceramite anyways, taking a Multi-melta seems like a poor choice. And given the lack of anti-armor in your force, you might want the extra lascannons instead. Curiously enough, your Land Raiders don't have the Armored Ceremite upgrade, so I guess you are planning on other players not taking melta weapons because of it? I think you think that I think that you think... LOL

Allied detachments are 1 HQ, 1 Troop, and up to one more troop, elite, FA, and HS. You wouldn't be able to take that second Herald of Tzeentch.

I've never fought a Word Bearer's list like this, so it'll be interesting to hear how you do! Good luck!

 Tamwulf wrote:
At first blush, there is a lot of MSU in this force, and it's all too easy to remove a MSU from the table, with the exception of your Terminators, but even then, Rapier Quad Mortars with Phosphex are a thing. I like the four scoring units, except only one has a Rhino, and they are all MSU. Do you really want to give a MSU infantry squad rotor cannons? Slavo 3/4, S3 AP 6? 30" range is nice, but... 20 shots if they stand still, 13 or 14 hit, but only 5 wound? Maybe one guy dies? Sorry, I do a lot of Math and Theory Hammer, and this post will probably have a lot of it. I almost think you would be better off with three Legion Tactical Squads of 15-20 models with Apothecaries instead of what you have listed. Given the other targets in your army (Mastidon, Land Raiders), that Rhino might just live long enough to be useful. So that's actually a pretty smart. I like it! Not so sure I like the five Plasma guys in it though. I have really bad luck with Get's Hot!

Ok, so the plan is that the two Tactical squads go in the Land Raiders. That's why they're ten man and with no upgrades - as I want them to pop out late game and camp on an objective. With the Word Bearer's Legion Rules you're going to have to kill all of them to get them to run off it.

If I continue with this, maybe it's best to swap and put a Plasma squad in one of the Land Raiders? I understand that Gets Hot is an issue, but I'm not really intending them to survive - I just find that a Plasma squad can be a useful counter to a Primarch/Monstrous Robot/small TEQ squad.

I mostly have the rotor cannons because I just like them, but I agree I'd probably be better off swapping them for another Tactical squad.

 Tamwulf wrote:
The Mastadon will be a fire magnet, so be aware of that. Spending 60 points for HK missles seems very inefficient for this model. Maybe save the points for Apothecaries? Can a Mastadon carry more than one unit? I don't know, I've never used or really read up on the Mastadon.

Mastodons are super-heavy and carry 40 models from multiple units. They're assault vehicle, so both units of terminators, Chaplain, Zardu and the Gal Vorbak can charge from it upon reaching it's destination. The four HK missiles only cost 20pts, which I thought alright for a one-off four-missile salvo (super-heavy, so it can fire as much as it wants in a turn).

 Tamwulf wrote:
Talking about Apothecaries, those would be gold for your units. As I noted above, it's far too easy to remove a MSU from the table, even more so when they don't have FnP from an Apothecary.

Yeah, I agree. I'd love to find points for a Primus Medicae for the terminators, too. Just not sure where to grab the points back at the moment. If I add apothecaries to the Tactical Squads, then they'll have to be footslogging!

 Tamwulf wrote:
The Terminators seem to be all over the place. If I understand correctly, they gain Rending on their weapons, so you are taking Lightning Claws to reroll wounds to maximize the Rending chances? And this unit is expected to get into Close Combat with what, exactly? Not other Terminators, because LC's are only AP3, and Rending is AP2 (so they still get invulnerable saves, and you'll never do enough Rending wounds for that to matter). Consider: On the charge, vs. another Terminator unit: 12 LC attacks and 4 power weapon attacks at WS4. So 6 LC's will hit, and 2 power weapons will hit. If you need 4's to wound, 5 LC's wound, and 1 power weapon wound, and 1 rend. Maybe 2, Shred messes up Mathhammer a bit. The other Termy squad should have a couple Chain Fists just in case. P-fist are great anti-infantry, but sometimes, you just need a Chain Fist. The advantage is you go at initiative, but if they have P-fists or it's a special unit of Terminators with what ever kind of special weapons they have...

So, the Terminators don't get Rending as standard. At the moment the intention was to have one squad with mostly Lightning Claws, for charging into MEQ, and one squad with mostly AP2/Plasma, for attacking TEQ and Vehicles. Both squads have a chainfist. Both squads assault out of the Mastodon.

If there's a risk in taking the small units (even assaulting out of a vehicle) then I could combine them, which save s a few points. I imagine the ideal load out then would be to concentrate on AP2 for fighting other big terminator units?

 Tamwulf wrote:
The Land Raider Squad- ick. I know due to the Rite of War that you can only take one Heavy Support Choice, but a squad of Land Raiders? Vehicle coherency rules, shots carrying over to the other vehicle... yuck. Also, the great charm of a Proteus is that it can take three twin linked lascannons and a pintle multi-melta. As everything usaully has Armored Ceramite anyways, taking a Multi-melta seems like a poor choice. And given the lack of anti-armor in your force, you might want the extra lascannons instead. Curiously enough, your Land Raiders don't have the Armored Ceremite upgrade, so I guess you are planning on other players not taking melta weapons because of it? I think you think that I think that you think... LOL

I totally agree about the extra lascannons - that's a much better option than two multi-meltas. The reason they were in a squadron was just to get them in the list to transport the Troops units. I agree that it has a ton of downsides, though!!

I guess another option would be to take Armoured Spearhead as the RoW which means they could be taken as Dedicated Transports, thus splitting them up. Having Zardu as the Warlord still allows me to take Daemon allies, so the so the loss of the Dark Brethren RoW doesn't bother me that much.

Alternatively, I could take Rhinos for the Troops instead, and spend the points on something else that's better suited for long ranged anti-tank - any suggestions? I have Grav-rapiers, Laser Destroyer Vindicators, Spartans and Deredeos to hand...

 Tamwulf wrote:
Allied detachments are 1 HQ, 1 Troop, and up to one more troop, elite, FA, and HS. You wouldn't be able to take that second Herald of Tzeentch.

Up to 4 Heralds can be taken in each 'Daemonic Heralds' choice.

Sounds like you have a plan!

The Rule of Cool says keep the Rotor Cannons. If you like 'em, then use 'em. I myself have a 10 model autocannon Legion Heavy Support Squad that somehow always find's its way into my lists.

Maybe you could combine the Terminator squads into one squad as a sort of Command Squad for your Centurion, and give him Terminator armor, and then decide what you want them to do- anti-infantry, all around, shooting... just pick a role for them and stick to it (I'd suggest close combat as you got the shooting covered). You could then squeeze out the points for Lascannons on the Land Raiders. You could also put some combi-weapons (I'd take combi-plasma or melta) on the Rhino's. Much cheaper then the big guns.

I'd make those couple small changes and play a few games before making any big, huge sweeping changes.