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Comrades, I have always pondered why GW ahem..."painted" themselves into a corner with the Space Wolves, in that they can not have successor chapters.

Point in question being the Wolf Brothers Chapter coming to a sticky end (in fluff) and obviously (canon) information from the novel "Battle of the Fang". With rampant mutation, instability and wolfen howling at the moon - mass hysteria, cats and dogs living together etc all being alluded to.

As someone who prefers doing his own DIY paint schemes and chapters etc, I'd rather have created my own SW successor chapter. Specifically something much less "Wolflord, Wolfie Sven McWolfsson" aka, the "Grey Wulfen-Wolf of the Fjords" which sums up contemporary 40k space wolves with their unimaginiative wolfesque, shiny ice blue and yellow, ginger hair & white beard look, while I prefer the Heresy era style Space Wolves (dark grey, red & menacing), which come across are far more "real" or plausable, as a futuristic posthuman varangian guard of space constantinople.

My question which I want to put to your collective fluff hive mind, is what about the Terran born original recruits to the Space Wolves legion,... before they were space wolves per-se and reunited with Russ?
Surely there was apoint when they use SW geneseed on Terrans, without the problems arising out of using the geneseed on non fenrisian humans?

IIRC, the geneseed used with Fenrisian humans, combined to make the geneseed more "lupine" (alluded to come from the theory that Fenrisian humans and wolves are related because of gene splicing during colonisation in the dark age of techology) thus contributing to create the current conundrum. The other less likely possibility is that the whole inability to create successor chapters, is a result of gradual geneseed deterioration or mutation, as seen with other chapters. I think this is less likely simply because what are the odds of mutating into the very animal people used as a nickname for you.

So if the original geneseed did not have these problems and all chapters/ legions submitted tithes of geneseed, (unless this is a post heresy tithe) surely there is a big vault full of geneseed from the early crusade untained by Fenrisian human "wolfstuff", just sitting somewhere on Terra gathering dust?

Could this be a way for the SW to get genetic if not cultural successor chapters?

OldSod wrote:
Comrades, I have always pondered why GW ahem..."painted" themselves into a corner with the Space Wolves, in that they can not have successor chapters.

Point in question being the Wolf Brothers Chapter coming to a sticky end (in fluff) and obviously (canon) information from the novel "Battle of the Fang". With rampant mutation, instability and wolfen howling at the moon - mass hysteria, cats and dogs living together etc all being alluded to.

As someone who prefers doing his own DIY paint schemes and chapters etc, I'd rather have created my own SW successor chapter. Specifically something much less "Wolflord, Wolfie Sven McWolfsson" aka, the "Grey Wulfen-Wolf of the Fjords" which sums up contemporary 40k space wolves with their unimaginiative wolfesque, shiny ice blue and yellow, ginger hair & white beard look, while I prefer the Heresy era style Space Wolves (dark grey, red & menacing), which come across are far more "real" or plausable, as a futuristic posthuman varangian guard of space constantinople.

My question which I want to put to your collective fluff hive mind, is what about the Terran born original recruits to the Space Wolves legion,... before they were space wolves per-se and reunited with Russ?
Surely there was apoint when they use SW geneseed on Terrans, without the problems arising out of using the geneseed on non fenrisian humans?

IIRC, the geneseed used with Fenrisian humans, combined to make the geneseed more "lupine" (alluded to come from the theory that Fenrisian humans and wolves are related because of gene splicing during colonisation in the dark age of techology) thus contributing to create the current conundrum. The other less likely possibility is that the whole inability to create successor chapters, is a result of gradual geneseed deterioration or mutation, as seen with other chapters. I think this is less likely simply because what are the odds of mutating into the very animal people used as a nickname for you.

So if the original geneseed did not have these problems and all chapters/ legions submitted tithes of geneseed, (unless this is a post heresy tithe) surely there is a big vault full of geneseed from the early crusade untained by Fenrisian human "wolfstuff", just sitting somewhere on Terra gathering dust?

Could this be a way for the SW to get genetic if not cultural successor chapters?

There may never have been Terran born space wolves. As far as we have been told Russ was the second primarch to be discovered and the space wolves legion was created alongside the salamanders and the alpha legion. So it's possible that they were created after Russ was discovered and that the first space wolves did indeed come from Fenris

If you're looking for a justification to make a Space Wolves successor chapter I think that's very solid reasoning go for it!

There is a terran space wolf in.. probably The Burning of Prospero
He is known as the long fang, so the terrans still had to deal with some gene seed mutation issues.

But Russ was one of the first discovered, and recruited solely from Fenris so there aren't many terrans left by the Heresy

I'm pretty sure one of the novels mentions that DNA was added to the Primarchs so Space Wolves are meant to be like that.

 Ynneadwraith wrote:
If you're looking for a justification to make a Space Wolves successor chapter I think that's very solid reasoning go for it!

Yeah, I could have. In the end I went for a Dark Angels, who descended from a Heresy DA company, which had wolves embedded (the ones sent to watch for signs of treachery which were sent to many legions,... and were usually killed themselves). The general idea that they got cut off, isolated, scavanging, becoming hunters conducting a "behind enemy lines" war of their own against the traitors out etc before rejoining parent DA legion a couple of hundred years later after all the heresy confusion.

The company was reformed, retained some of the character of that period and subsequently formed the basis of new founding chapter descended from DA.
Only to later suffer another similar incident involving tyranids cuting them off from the greater imperium, where they are almost wiped out, before reverting to their old HH template of a force of scavaging, hunters. Less Dark Angels "grail knights" inspired than Celtic "Red Branch Knights" inspired.

It worked for me.

Back on topic, I hate when fluff which was probably conceived without ever suspecting the hobby/ Warhammer Universe would ever last decades and become so big,... a prime example being limiting legions to 1000. Such a short sighted decsion which I would retconn to be honest.

LEGIONS aren't limited to 1000, Chapters are, and that doesn't include specialists like libbys etc

I have a few ideas.

Perhaps all the Terran Space Wolves were unstable and ended up being banded into the Wolf Brothers?

Alternatively, but a little similar.

When the second founding happened the wolves wanted to appear to be co-operating. As such, they shot two birds with one stone; they put all the marines they suspected of being particularly prone to becoming wulfen (perhaps traced by their geneseed lineage) into their 'successor chapter' then used their instability as evidence that they couldn't have successor chapters?

I suppose there is another way you could get round the 'Fenrisian problem'. While space marine home worlds aren't required to pay tithes they also aren't forbidden from volunteering regiments for the IG.

Perhaps, after the Fang is attacked by Magnus a bunch of Fenrisian natives form themselves into a regiment and volunteer into service for the Imperial Guard to be sent on a campaign of revenge. Of course, this being 40k and no-one getting happy endings they end up being posted to a warzone where, after taking significant losses, they subdue a planet which they are then 'gifted' to police/repopulate (i.e. retired to as their losses of equipment and personnel makes it uneconomic for the navy to collect and transport them).

An attached magos, that happens to be aware of these peoples' origins (and of the exclusivity of Space Wolf geneseed), contacts his colleagues on Mars. Mars in turn petition the Lords of Terra for an experimental chapter founding to test the viability of space wolf geneseed on these ex-fenrisians. Hundreds of years later permission is granted and a new chapter is secretly founded.

My personal theory? The dark age Fenris colonists used genetic engineering to alter themselves in order to survive there world. Fast forward to the end of the age of strife and the Emperor incorporates there modifications into Leman russes DNA. When the Primarches are scattered Russ is drawn to Fenris due to his shared genetic links to its population. Back on Earth the Imperium is able to stabilise the early SW recruits by using the data they have on the Fenris alterations. Unfortunately sometime during or just after the Heresy that data and its link to the SW geenseed is lost, leaving the SW and any potential successor chapters unable to recruit from any other population.