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The neural shredder...Can it penetrate vehicles or does it only glance?  Also, in the case of the d3 glancing hit do you roll with str 8 against the vehicles armor value or is it just an auto d3 glancing hit.  The wording on it is a little ambiguous to say the least. 

With all of her weaponry: blades, shredder, phase sword; does she in fact get an extra attack for extra close combat weapon raising her melee attacks to a total of 3?

Also, its worth noting that the new rulebook came out after the Daemonhunters codex.

In light of the new ap1 rule...if the neural shredder is in face able to penetrate, wouldn't it then penetrate armor everytime?

Neural shredder auto-glances, but rolls a 1d3 instread of 1d6 on the table. And it's AP 2 (I believe) so the AP 1 rule wouldn't matter. Might be wrong on that though.

And no, the neural shredder doesn't count as an additional ccw.

Its definately ap1.

Also, I only have the DH codex, and nowhere does it say it autoglances a hit. It just says that it is str8 and that on the glancing table you roll a d3.

I take that to mean that when it glances it doesn't affect the crew, but that when it penetrates it can. Furthermore, since the ap1 rule came out after the codex, I gather It can only penetrate now.

I realize however that it is a 'neural' weapon that should in fact affect the brains of the crew, therefor it would make more sense if it only glances, but as I am reading it this is not the case. Everyone's thoughts?

I also have difficulty believing the assassin doesn't get an extra attack based on the model alone. With a C'tan blade, poison blades, and a neural shredder 'pistol', I would imagine that it does get the extra attack. Nowhere does it say that any of these weapons are one handed if I'm not mistaken. Do any of the other assassins get an extra attack due to weapon configuration?

It seems weird to me that none of these questions have ever come up seeing as though the assassin have been around for awhile. It seems to me the most ambiguous unit I have read the rules to in quite some time.

If it is AP1, which I believe it is, then yes the shredder glancing converts to a penetration. Downright evil!

Which leads to 3 possible outcomes:

1) converts to straight up penetrating always, the codex says d3 on glancing and there is no longer a glancing rule to apply

2) always d3 penetrating hit

3) If it equals the armor value it is d3 penetrating, whereas if it exceeds the armor value it is a regular penetrating hit

"Against vehicles, roll a D3 on the glancing hits table" (C:WH 31); so it doesn't actually do a glancing hit, you just roll on the table.

I think that about summs it up. You do not get to pen with a neural shredder.

Thanks guys,

And does he not get an extra attack for pistol/ccw, or am I reading too much into the way the model looks?

Neural shredder is a two handed weapon.

"Against vehicles, roll a D3 on the glancing hits table"

I disagree. Obviously the neural shredder is glancing the vehicle, but it was the intent of the games designer to limit its devastation.

the neural shredder is not a two handed weapon. Now where does it say that. In 3rd ed. it was classified as a pistol. Actually look in the weapons summary in the codex and check. Capt K

Okay I will check tonight. The reason I stated it is a two handed question is that this question arose often in third edition and I never remember seeing anything in print to justify it was a single handed weapon.

It is not technically defined as a two handed weapon.

But neither is it defined as a pistol or ccw, which would be needed to get the extra attack. It's just her base attacks, plus one if she charges.

That is how I saw it too.

Posted By mauleed on 05/31/2006 12:15 PM

It is not technically defined as a two handed weapon.

But neither is it defined as a pistol or ccw, which would be needed to get the extra attack. It's just her base attacks, plus one if she charges.

Actually it just has to be defined as a one handed weapon to get the extra attack, which it isn't. It doesn't neccessarily have to be a pistol or a close combat weapon.

If an Imperial Terminator is in a pinch he can club you with his storm bolter. Same holds true for the assassin but then they are quite bright and will use the phase weapon since they can still strike at I5. - BT

I know this is ancient, but why have 2 posts of the same topic cramming the bandwidth?

Anyway, it is worth mentioning that the rules, word-for-word: "Against vehicles, roll a D3 on the Glancing Hits table, as the crew's brains are partially protected by the vehicle's armour." (emphasis mine)

There is no Glancing Hits table anymore. Instead, Glancing Hits simply have a -2 modifier. However, AP1 weapons add +1 (for a total of -1 modifier to the D3 roll). Therefore, the Neural Shredder can only make crew shaken and stunned results (which is what it would have been in 4th Edition anyway).

I'm sorry, doesn't the main rule book say you just need two close combat weapons? Maybe they have changed the wording over the years to pistol AND close combat weapon, but she has two I believe, so would get the extra attack. And if anyone said that to me on the battlefield, I would let them roll with it.

Check the WH FAQ, the shredder is clarified to be a single-handed weapon.

As for vehicles the shredder is told to roll a d3 on the glancing table which no longer exists... The FAQ says to roll as normal but with a -4 modifier.

BloodyT wrote:If it is AP1, which I believe it is, then yes the shredder glancing converts to a penetration. Downright evil!

I see several posters saying this and it needs to be clarified.

AP 1 Weapons do not add to the roll to determine if you score a Glance or a Penetration against a vehicle.

AP1 Weapons add a +1 to the Vehicle Damage Table when determining what effect your already scored Glance or Penetration has.

Marius Xerxes wrote:

BloodyT wrote:If it is AP1, which I believe it is, then yes the shredder glancing converts to a penetration. Downright evil!

I see several posters saying this and it needs to be clarified.

AP 1 Weapons do not add to the roll to determine if you score a Glance or a Penetration against a vehicle.

AP1 Weapons add a +1 to the Vehicle Damage Table when determining what effect your already scored Glance or Penetration has.

This is why you (not you Marius, but Colonel Marksman) need to start a new thread instead of performing thread necromancy.

Other users come in, read the old posts (which pertained to previous editions of the rules) and then get confused. More importantly, the original question was asked based on a previous version of the rules so that person has long since gotten their answer.

If you simply wanted to point out that the Nueral Shredder has wording that doesn't quite work with 5th edition then by all means you should have started a new thread.

Locking now. . .