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I've been playing CSM for a while now and with the release of traitor legions I decided to do Alpha Legion (cuz the Word Bearers in this book don't fit my playstyle). I've got some sort of an idea for a semi-fluffy build (see below) but can anyone give me tips on how to run AL in a CAD the best?

Rough List idea: (1500)

Termie Lord, Hydras teeth, Chainfist, sigil of corruption

5x Termies

5x Chosen w/Meltas
5x Chosen w/Plasmas

2x 20 Cultists

3 Oblits

Rest of list will be small elite units

Forgive me if I am wrong about this, but don't Traitor Chapter tactics only apply if you are using one of the detachments detailed in the new book?

If not, that's great, I would prefer a CAD, I just don't want to lose the special rules.

 techsoldaten wrote:
Forgive me if I am wrong about this, but don't Traitor Chapter tactics only apply if you are using one of the detachments detailed in the new book?

If not, that's great, I would prefer a CAD, I just don't want to lose the special rules.

You can make any detachment a [traitor legion] detachment. Legion CADs are fine

 techsoldaten wrote:
Forgive me if I am wrong about this, but don't Traitor Chapter tactics only apply if you are using one of the detachments detailed in the new book?

If not, that's great, I would prefer a CAD, I just don't want to lose the special rules.

I'm not too bothered about the AL detachment as to get the most out of it you need the lost and the damned which I don't want and I don't like the chaos decurion.

Infiltrating/outflanking special weapon chosen are a good way to make sure every unit in the list has a job they do competently but I think standard CSM units get a good boost too if you outflank them. Outflank and infiltrate are good alternatives to taking a rhino

I'm thinking two units of csm in rhinos with a melta and combi melta. Infiltrating can take out a target, and then fall back and hold objectives. Cheap enough to allow for other proper hitters. HQ can be a sorceror, who is always useful , and can take the mindviel which is excellent.

The only issue with the regular Marines is that you're getting more special weapons for the cost with Chosen.
Granted the regular Infiltrate bonus is pretty darn good for them, but Chosen get just so more more.

I think the best thing about playing AL in a CAD is not having to take CSM and instead pass them up for Chosen.

I think the standard HQ will be a Sorc with the Mindveil, or possibly a Dark Apostle if you're running a cultist blob.

A nice but potentially cheesy HQ unit is also a Daemon Prince of Tzeentch with the 2+ Armor is a solid choice. Also the classic Biker Lord/Sorc with the Burning Brand will probably not disappoint either.

Next should probably be the unit you plan on Mindveil, I think either Terminators or a big blob of Cultists work best here. Zombies might also be great if you're up for some Typhus or Death Guard relic shenanigans.

I think every list should include at least two squads of Chosen. I like mine 5 strong in Rhinos with 2 specials. It's tempting to go 4, but I'm hesitant to go beyond what I can shoot out of my mobile bunkers.

I also think a couple of Outflanking Cultist squads are also awesome, purely for objective capturing.

Looking at our support units, we're just the same as Chaos has always been, with perhaps Chosen replacing Bikers for Melta duty. Helldrakes do what Helldrakes do and Autocannon Havocs are as welcome as always.

 Perth wrote:
I think the best thing about playing AL in a CAD is not having to take CSM and instead pass them up for Chosen.

I think the standard HQ will be a Sorc with the Mindveil, or possibly a Dark Apostle if you're running a cultist blob.

A nice but potentially cheesy HQ unit is also a Daemon Prince of Tzeentch with the 2+ Armor is a solid choice. Also the classic Biker Lord/Sorc with the Burning Brand will probably not disappoint either.

Next should probably be the unit you plan on Mindveil, I think either Terminators or a big blob of Cultists work best here. Zombies might also be great if you're up for some Typhus or Death Guard relic shenanigans.

I think every list should include at least two squads of Chosen. I like mine 5 strong in Rhinos with 2 specials. It's tempting to go 4, but I'm hesitant to go beyond what I can shoot out of my mobile bunkers.

I also think a couple of Outflanking Cultist squads are also awesome, purely for objective capturing.

Looking at our support units, we're just the same as Chaos has always been, with perhaps Chosen replacing Bikers for Melta duty. Helldrakes do what Helldrakes do and Autocannon Havocs are as welcome as always.

I'm planning a termie lord with mindveil as HQ. Though that DP is tempting.

The (rough) list so far

CAD

Chaos Lord (Termie, PF, Mindveil, combi weapon, sigil of corruption) or Tzeentch DP w/drakescale

5 Termies in LR as bodyguard (maybe not if I have DP)

5x Melta Chosen in rhino
5x Plasma Chosen in rhino
2x 20 cultists
10x marines footslogging (for something more solid than cultists when needed)
Not sure whether Oblits or Havocs
Forgefiend for AA

I eventually decided to go with 4 melta guns in a 7 man squad. With Infiltrate and the Rhino it is pretty darn good. More play testing needs to be done though.

I'm not sure the LR is worth it. With the Mind Veil you're moving almost as far on average and have a lot more Terminators to tag along with.

 Perth wrote:
I think the best thing about playing AL in a CAD is not having to take CSM and instead pass them up for Chosen.

I think the standard HQ will be a Sorc with the Mindveil, or possibly a Dark Apostle if you're running a cultist blob.

A nice but potentially cheesy HQ unit is also a Daemon Prince of Tzeentch with the 2+ Armor is a solid choice. Also the classic Biker Lord/Sorc with the Burning Brand will probably not disappoint either.

Next should probably be the unit you plan on Mindveil, I think either Terminators or a big blob of Cultists work best here. Zombies might also be great if you're up for some Typhus or Death Guard relic shenanigans.

I think every list should include at least two squads of Chosen. I like mine 5 strong in Rhinos with 2 specials. It's tempting to go 4, but I'm hesitant to go beyond what I can shoot out of my mobile bunkers.

I also think a couple of Outflanking Cultist squads are also awesome, purely for objective capturing.

Looking at our support units, we're just the same as Chaos has always been, with perhaps Chosen replacing Bikers for Melta duty. Helldrakes do what Helldrakes do and Autocannon Havocs are as welcome as always.

Chosen are a great option for a CAD. If you want MSU troops then chosen beat CSM squads every time; even a unit of 5 sitting back with a lascannon can be a thing again.

I like the double special weapons in rhinos. I'd even be tempted to chuck in an extra flamer just for the hell of it

The Tzeentch DP with drakescale plate is a great combo. Coupled with shrouding on turn 1 it's almost guaranteed to see turn 2, and if you can get it into CC with something without AP2 attacks they aren't going to stand a chance against it. I recently saw an AL daemon prince someone had made with a cold one head- I'm definitely going to follow that and do the same.

Ya know, I've been wondering about Flamers too. Even a single one in a squad is 5 points just to hurt infantry and make Overwatch just a little better.

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
Ya know, I've been wondering about Flamers too. Even a single one in a squad is 5 points just to hurt infantry and make Overwatch just a little better.

For a squad with a free special weapon slot it's like an anti infantry equivalent of melta bombs. Even a unit of chosen shooting plasma guns out of a rhino will find situations to use a flamer, and even in the chance the unit remain in their rhino all game that probably means the game went well enough that not using a 5 point weapon didn't matter

I suppose it depends how you build units. If there's a cheap-ish piece of wargear an anti infantry unit can take that, in a pinch, gives it some utility against vehicles I'll take it, and vice versa to give options to an anti armour unit. Some have the opinion that everything should be absolutely tailored to its role which I can respect too

I'm already running 4 Melta Guns in a squad. I could always use that last slot for a Flamer heaven forbid there aren't any vehicles.

Chosen make great assault troops; putting 4 Flamers in a unit would definitely work well. I've been considering it for a list.

 Homeskillet wrote:
Chosen make great assault troops; putting 4 Flamers in a unit would definitely work well. I've been considering it for a list.

That might be going overboard. However, with the rise of Cults having a Flamer in every squad would help with winning assaults.

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

 Homeskillet wrote:
Chosen make great assault troops; putting 4 Flamers in a unit would definitely work well. I've been considering it for a list.

That might be going overboard. However, with the rise of Cults having a Flamer in every squad would help with winning assaults.

Remember flamers are only 5 points each, and the Chosen still keep their pistols and ccw; a 20 point unit upgrade to torch a unit in cover, then charge in and destroy the remnants. Sounds perfect to me, not overboard!

WAIT WAIT WAIT. SO MY ALPHA LEGION GET SHROUDED FIRST TURN EVEN IF THEY ARE IN A CAD?! AND I GET RESPAWNING CULTISTS TOO?!?!?!


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I apologize. I miss read an earlier post. Still, Insurgency Detachment is pretty meh then.

 The Deathless Host wrote:
WAIT WAIT WAIT. SO MY ALPHA LEGION GET SHROUDED FIRST TURN EVEN IF THEY ARE IN A CAD?! AND I GET RESPAWNING CULTISTS TOO?!?!?!


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I apologize. I miss read an earlier post. Still, Insurgency Detachment is pretty meh then.

Yep only infantry is shrouded, so no rhinos, and you have to take 4 units of Cultists and a Dark Apostle to get the most benefit.

Extremely meh, especially with the confirmation that you dontvget multiplying cultists -_-

 The Deathless Host wrote:
WAIT WAIT WAIT. SO MY ALPHA LEGION GET SHROUDED FIRST TURN EVEN IF THEY ARE IN A CAD?! AND I GET RESPAWNING CULTISTS TOO?!?!?!


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I apologize. I miss read an earlier post. Still, Insurgency Detachment is pretty meh then.

No, I believe you only get shrouded if you take the Insurgency Force.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also, if it is FAQ'ed to only get one roll for returning Cultists, there is zero benefit to using the Chaos Warband. The Lost and Damned formation is stupid without some benefit (other than maybe coming back from reserves), as the loss of Obsec is too much. Without 2 rolls for returning cultists, a CAD is easily the best way to go for Alpha Legion.

The Cultist faq ticked me off. How was this anyway overpowered. Someone complains about non-existing infinite cultists and GW sides with him. I played a game using an insurgency force and the first time I ever rolled on a wiped unit of cultists I failed both rolls. Now I could see this possiblely being abused along death guard allies to flood a board with zombie, but even that isnt game breaking.