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Hi guys, there's something I never quite grasped in the rules and I can't find a clear explanation in the codices or the BRB to it. I'll use my Cult Mechanicus codex for the example.

So, let's say I run the Battle Congregation, which is the standard Detachment for my codex, which requires 1 HQ and 2 Troops, mandatory. There's 2 Support slots available, but optional, all right.
Now I put in a Techpriest, two Kataphrons, and two Kastelans Maniple. I decide to go for the Cohort Cybernetica formation, which requires 1 Tech Priest and 2 Kastelan Maniples. I want to put a third Kastelan Maniple in the army, not in the Cohort Cybernetica. Is it legal ?

My question here is, will the units composing the formations fill the slots of my detachment ? Or are they like, part of another detachment made of the formation ?

I hope I asked clearly enough, thanks in advance ! And sorry if it's the wrong section, I'm not quite sure.

 Aaranis wrote:

My question here is, will the units composing the formations fill the slots of my detachment ? Or are they like, part of another detachment made of the formation ?

First off formations detachments and follow the rules of all other detachments. The rulebook might help you on that.
What ever goes into a detachment of any sort and what can't go into it is always strictly defined.
You can't use a unit or model or detachment in one detachment as a requirement or part of an other detachment.
Detachments are like bags that have for some reason specific conditions for what can be in them and what can't. So you can put a unit in one bag you can even put a bag in an other bag if it is allowed by the specifications of the bag but its physical impossible to put one unit in 2 separate bags.

A unit cannot be part of two formations/detachments (unless the detachment contains formations) you would have to fill up the requirements of the cohort and the congregation seperatly.
So yes, they are two seperate detachments/formations.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 oldzoggy wrote:
its physical impossible to put one unit in 2 separate bags.

Well you could use that circular saw again.

Okay I think I see. So that means that I can bypass that 2 Support slots by using 2 formations that requires Kastelans in it ? And I'd still need to fill the mandatory 1 HQ and 2 Troops slots to be legal.

Now if I use the Holy Requisitioner formation, made of a Techpriest and 2-3 Kataphron Breachers units, that won't count towards the standard Battle Congregation and I won't have my bonuses like the re-roll for the warlord traits and the re-use of one Canticle ? And I'd still need to fill the 1 HQ and 2 Troops slots to play my list ?

 Aaranis wrote:
Okay I think I see. So that means that I can bypass that 2 Support slots by using 2 formations that requires Kastelans in it ? And I'd still need to fill the mandatory 1 HQ and 2 Troops slots to be legal.

You still manage to confuse yourself and me :\

First your list is always legal as long as you are not going above the points or cheat in an other way, and there is no such thing as bypassing requirements.
You can field any unit you want and call your list unbound, see the rulebook for more of that.

Now if you want to go battle forged you will need to build your army of any number of detachments. You needing 1HQ + 2 troops for your list to be legal is total nonsense, forget whatever made you think of that and lock it away under ancient rules that no longer apply in the 7th edition.

So if you found a formation in a 40k book that reads

Mek rave
requirement
1 Mek
4-10 Goff rockers
0-200 units of boyz

an other detachment that went.

Boyz waiting for the bus

Required
0 trukks
1 units of boyz

Optional
3 HQ
3 Troops
5 HQ

Restrictions.
All models must have the 'Ere we go rule and can't take dedicated transports

and final the detachment

Da party
Requirement.
1 Big Mek
1-3 Mek raves
0-2 Boyz waiting for the bus

You could field any number of Mek raves, Boyz waiting on the busses and da parties including only 1 of them and 0 of the rest and you would have a battleforged list since your list contains only detachments and no loose units.
You could however NOT use anything in that detachment to for fill the requirement of an other detachment such as using the mek rave boyz for the boys waiting for a bus detachments requirement . Detachments themselves can be used in an other detachment thus you can field a Da Party by using the Mek Raves etc.

 Aaranis wrote:
Okay I think I see. So that means that I can bypass that 2 Support slots by using 2 formations that requires Kastelans in it ? And I'd still need to fill the mandatory 1 HQ and 2 Troops slots to be legal.

Now if I use the Holy Requisitioner formation, made of a Techpriest and 2-3 Kataphron Breachers units, that won't count towards the standard Battle Congregation and I won't have my bonuses like the re-roll for the warlord traits and the re-use of one Canticle ? And I'd still need to fill the 1 HQ and 2 Troops slots to play my list ?

I think I understand what you're trying to say. You are correct that the Holy Requisitioner formation units won't fill the slots in the battle congregation detachment, but you don't HAVE to take a battle congregation if you don't want to. No detachments are mandatory. If you want the bonuses of the Requisitioner formation AND the bonuses from the battle congregation, then you'll have to meet the requirements of both detachments separately. Otherwise just take any combination of whichever formations and/or detachments you want, so long as you meet each requirement separately.

And yes, the heavy support slots in the congregation are optional, and don't have to be filled. They cannot be filled by units from other detachments/formations.


I think you're understanding everything for the most part!

Ah yes so that's what I thought ! So to run a Battleforged army I just need to have all my units as parts of formations ? Okay I got it.

Thanks a lot for your answers, it was almost giving me headaches.

Especially you oldzoggy, you put a lot of effort in your answer and I appreciate it ! Thanks !