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Hi guys,

Something popped into my head the other day that I hadn't thought of before..

When upgrading say a tactical Sgt. to a veteran Sgt. does anyone give them a veteran shoulder pad? I know in most cases it's usually a different coloured helmet, but shouldn't they technically have a veteran should pad too, lore wise? I can't specifically find anything on it, but it would match other veterans in the army. Does anyone know if there is a distinct difference between a veteran Sgt. of a tactical squad, and a veteran Sgt. of say, a sternguard squad that suggests that the tactical veteran wouldn't have a crux shoulder pad? Is the crux shoulder pad exclusive to first company members only?

The crux pad denotes that the wearer is trained in the use of terminator armor. This is something that only vets have. Now I’m not 100% on modern fluff, but there could be a small number of marines who might not have been rotated into the 1st, but are veterans. But any vet who was part of the 1st co, but is serving in another company would almost definitely have the right to wear the crux.

But for the most part, all veterans should have the right to wear the crux. They might not wear it, but they way SMs love their bling, they probably do. Their shoulder pads could have the company color trim, not white though.

Or just go old school with hashed helmet stripes.

 Nevelon wrote:
The crux pad denotes that the wearer is trained in the use of terminator armor. This is something that only vets have. Now I’m not 100% on modern fluff, but there could be a small number of marines who might not have been rotated into the 1st, but are veterans. But any vet who was part of the 1st co, but is serving in another company would almost definitely have the right to wear the crux.

But for the most part, all veterans should have the right to wear the crux. They might not wear it, but they way SMs love their bling, they probably do. Their shoulder pads could have the company color trim, not white though.

Or just go old school with hashed helmet stripes.

Yeah that's what I'm wondering, is a veteran in the first company the same as a veteran leading a squad in say, the second company. I guess the crux does definitely mean that they were part of the first company at some stage and are able to were terminator armour.

I guess the best way to look at it is squad sergeants who are veterans are just veterans in their company who've not been promoted to the first company yet. Or they're just veterans of their unit type. So a veteran Sgt. in a tactical squad is just a very experienced tactical marine, and his veteran status means nothing more.

I think I'll leave the crux for members of the first company only, as it should be, and just say veteran sergeants haven't been promoted into the firsts yet so they haven't had training for terminator armour.

From a tactical POV, I’d advise against vet sarges in tac squads in the first place.

From a practical POV, I generally horde all my crux shoulderpads to make more sternguard. I also gave my assault marine sarge (who is likely to have the points spent to make him a vet) a studded shoulder pad where he would normally wear his crux, so I can play him either way.

I did give the two spare guys in my command squad crux shoulderpads though.

The fluff is often vague enough to just do what you think is cool. Go with what you like, nobody is going to make a fuss over something a minor as that.

As always I'd say it can vary. The background is fuzzy, I guess that is why it is called fluff.

Many marines do time in 1st before being sent back to line companies to work as sergeants.

I'd say it would be expected that many veteran sergeants who've taken this career path would be trained in use of terminator armour (so could wear the crux).

Note, I'm sure in many chapters there will also be veteran sergeants who either have been in the 1st company but did not receive terminator armour training (perhaps they were earmarked to become squad leaders in battle companies) or are veteran sergeants who never formally made it into the 1st company (so are very unlikely to be trained in terminator armour).


The exact details probably vary from chapter to chapter (or even within chapter depending on who the master was at the time promotions/etc happened).

Nevelon wrote:From a tactical POV, I’d advise against vet sarges in tac squads in the first place.

From a practical POV, I generally horde all my crux shoulderpads to make more sternguard. I also gave my assault marine sarge (who is likely to have the points spent to make him a vet) a studded shoulder pad where he would normally wear his crux, so I can play him either way.

I did give the two spare guys in my command squad crux shoulderpads though.

The fluff is often vague enough to just do what you think is cool. Go with what you like, nobody is going to make a fuss over something a minor as that.

You're not the first person today who's advised against upgrading the sergeant! I play Blood Angels mainly, so I usually like to do it so that they have an extra attack. This way I try to make the most of having S5 I5 on the charge if I take a Baal Strike Force.

nareik wrote:As always I'd say it can vary. The background is fuzzy, I guess that is why it is called fluff.

Many marines do time in 1st before being sent back to line companies to work as sergeants.

I'd say it would be expected that many veteran sergeants who've taken this career path would be trained in use of terminator armour (so could wear the crux).

Note, I'm sure in many chapters there will also be veteran sergeants who either have been in the 1st company but did not receive terminator armour training (perhaps they were earmarked to become squad leaders in battle companies) or are veteran sergeants who never formally made it into the 1st company (so are very unlikely to be trained in terminator armour).


The exact details probably vary from chapter to chapter (or even within chapter depending on who the master was at the time promotions/etc happened).

I think you've done a good job in summing up all the options! There's so many variables, which I guess is good because you can create a narrative for your own models.

I think they way I'm going to do it going forward, is that veterans are just company veterans (probably in line for company command squads). First company veterans will be separate and have their crux shoulder pads. I like the idea of them being able to go back and serve a role in normal companies, but I think first company veterans might be too valuable to send back?

That old exclusive veteran sergeant model, the one wielding a storm bolter and power fist, had a crux terminatus shoulder pad. I've always followed that.