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Hi,

I´ve got a 2000 point game comming up (versus spacewolves) so I´ve made a quick list to see what I can field but it just doesn't feel right to me. I could really use some advice.
It's a 2 CAD list ('couse why wouldn't I) It's 2000 points on the nose (I love it when that happens,)


As i said, it feels like something is missing in this list. I was thinking of killsaws on one of the MANz and maybe a Mek in every unit for challenges.Would that be worth dropping a couple of upgrades? What would you change in general?
(my mek gunz are in the making, so ofcourse I'm missing that)

Hi, 2000 points for orks are a bit rough as the most competitive units we have fit in a 1000 points list, so you should go with a huge amount of them... i mean 12-22 bikes (witj 2 HQs at least), 10 trukks or 5 battle wagons and MSU of lootas and tankbustas. The tankbustas don't perform in a single big or medium size unit with a trukk as a dedicated transport or a looted wagon to carry them, 2-3 min squads are much better. If you want to take a bigger unit you should bring a battlewagon to carry them. A pair of killsaws is mandatory in a 2000 points list as your only good anti av14 is the warboss' power klaw, and it costs only 10 points. The single units of koptas are very good but maybe 3 are enough. Split the lootas into min units of five and drop the mek. Also the 10 boyz on foot, the weirdoby and the looted wagon are not good at all, while the flyer is situational. I never liked orks flyers but many players use them, so the bommer can be useful. With no bikes i'd go with a blitzbrigade or a mix with 3 battle wagons and 4-5 trukks, then 2-3 min squads of lootas, meganobz, 2-3 min units of tankbustas (or 2 units of 10 in BW), 3-5 single koptas and as soon as possible those mek gunz that you have on the way. Also i'd split the megarmored warboss from the meganobz (if you intended to field them together),17 boyz plus the painboy are better for the warboss, as a melee unit that has ap2 will easily wipe out your expensive one if you have all the eggs in the same basket..

Could you explain the MSU lootas for me?
The way I have them in this list is so they won't run away that easy. That's the reason for the mek being there. When I field 2 units of 5, only 2 of them have to die and they are likely to run away.

The msu tankbusta's I get (I guess) put 5 tankbusta's in a truck, rush them to armour and let the tankbombs do the rest. but that costs 70 points extra for the 2 trucks (or i have 5 tankbusta's less) If i field them foodslogging, they will be shot. and 10 in a trukk will die due to the exploding truck.

That's where the looted wagon comes in. I disagree on your opinion on the looted wagon and here's why. The looted wagon on itself is not that great but it is the best platform for the killkanon aka "big bey bey spacemarine gun" but the best part is that it's only 77 points. I don't care if it blows up turn one (I do but thats because I really like the moddel) because that meens the enemy didn't blow up one of more important transports. The surviving tankbustas crawling out of there still have thare tankbusta bombs and can still explode an armoured vehicle. it's win win win.

I do agree on the weirdboy not being great, but it doesn't suck either. There's a unit for every power he gets

I agree on the 10 naked boyz, they are worthless. I could downgrade them to gretchin but they are just a pain in my donkey. the 25 points difference could buy me a killsaw and a Mek but besides drop pods, i don't expect a lot of armour on the table. I really don't get why people like gretchin so much. They are even too small to be used as a meatshield. they have obsec wich is useless because a mere "boo" of a single spacemarine scares them of.

Bikes are great perhaps I could do 6 bikes /w nob, pk and bp instead of the bomber but I don't know what bikes are supposed to do during a game. their cc is about as good as a unit of 'eavy boys and their shooting is worse than lootas.

About the warboss in mega armour in a unit of 17 boyz.... why? I'd rather have 17 boyz with no armour charging something that hits with ap 2 than the MANz. So if I put my warboss in that unit, he still gets the killed by ap 2. no thank you.

ok, i'll try:

MSU lootas: lootas are boyz on foot so any average volley of shots they take and the entire unit is gone (if you receive 6-7 wounds with s4-5 weapons and then the mek will crush another couple in the mob rule the unit is crippled and useless), buf if you take 2-3 units there would require 2-3 units controlled by the opponent that have to shoot to lootas. Many armies don't play MSU so they have just some average (the big guns are reserved for other targets like trukks and bw) shooty unit that can wipe out 12-15 boyz with a single volley of shots, that's why 10 lootas aren't much more resilient than 5. Furthemore you can shoot at different targets if you take msu units of lootas so if you get lucky with the first one and destroy the target you don't waste the other shots. Same for the tankbustas, 10 of them die as easily as 5 and a looted wagon is not more resilient than a trukk, it'll explodes very easily too. That's why tankbustas are usually taken in MSU, with 2 cads you should have 3-4 min units, all in trukks. The concept with MSU is every unit is expendable but having a lot of them means that something will certainly survive and shoot/assault the enemy. At 2000 points without any bikes you should have a lot of vehicles to be competitive, 10-12 trukks at least or 5 bw or a mix.

The looted wagon is only av11 and open topped, that means that almost every result on the penetrating table will prevent the tank from shooting next turn. And firing a single blast at bs2 isn't that scary, even with a direct hit some wounds can be saved by cover or FNP. 5 lobbas do the same job more efficiently.

Gretchin are great beacause they're a tactical unit: they do nothing in the shooting phase and in close combat, but they can fill the mandatory troop slots without spending many points so you can dedicate those points to more competitive units than boyz, they can grab an objective so other units are free to fight the opponent. If you have to control an objective in your side of the board but don't want to waste a trukk full of boyz/tankbustas/meganobz to take it ora a blob of boyz, the gretchin are the best for that job along with deffkpotas. Also they can deny some area protecting your vehicles for deep striking melta guns and even confers 5+ cover save if put in front of other units.

If you're going to play 2000 points game i'd avoid small squads of bikes, you should deploy 10 or more, better if joined by 1-2 HQs. Without a warboss the bikes should shoot and charge vehicles or shooty units that are too far from your slower units. In you have a warboss with them they're good also in close combat unless you face deathstars. But no unit in the ork codex is adequate to deal with close combat deathstars. Also in the shooting phase they're very good as they the fire 3 twin linked shots, lootas are good too but they fire a random number of shots so there are high chances to get only a single shot a piece, also bikes are much more resilient being T5, 4+ armor and can jink.

Warboss with boyz: against ap2 the warboss doesn't die because all those hits are taken by the boyz. You don't want the meganobz to charge a strong melee unit that has ap2 but the opponent can charge you and if he does with a unit that strikes at initiative 2 or more and ap2 he will kill all the megarmors, even negating the lucky stikk. Throw the unit of boyz-painboy-warboss against a strong close combat unit, the boyz will absord the wounds and the warboss is free to strike with his 5 s10 rerollable hits. I'd never put a warboss in megarmor with a unit of meganobz.

I hope i well explained some points, consider that are just opinions

If the opponent has a space wolves army the MSU style is quite appropriate as you can't deal with any of his close combat units like thunderwolves or wulfen, and drop pods are always nasty so deny some area with trukks and gretchin could be helpful. Force the wolves to deep strike away from your lootas and protect the BWs from the melta guns. I have no idea about what your opponent would field but orks are my main army and space wolves my third one, so i know what i would do if i have to face the wolves. Shoot the close combat units and bubble wrap them with expendable units like small squads of boyz or gretchins so he'll be forced to waste assault into them, and charge the shooty units if he has some. Megarmors are very good against infantry, chage blood claws and grey hunters with them.

I mostly agree with what Blackie said. Here are some additional comments/different takes:
- MSU lootas are awesome. They even bring the average number of shots closer to 2 per model (as you throw more D3). Also, ifm you decide to keep the whole squad together with the mek, I wonder if giving him a rokkit launcha is really a good investment. He might be out of range most of the time. However I've never faced space wolves, I'm used to armies running away from my boys;
- Change the sluggas on your boss nobz for shootas. It's free and they don't benefit from the pistol anyway. That extra shot can be useful when the charge is almost certain;
- Replace the boarding planks for reinforced rams on your trukks. Was that a typo? RR are mandatory while boarding planks are a waste of points on trukks, IMO;
- In keeping the MSU concept, I think small units of 5-6 bikes (including nob) are pretty good. Think of them as shooty units more than assault units, but they can still do some good against weak target. They are pretty resilient. 10-12 bikes with HQs is nice but it's a huge point sink;
- Mek gunz are awesome!

Black is nailed it right there wrt to MSU and tactica. I gotta disagree with you on bikes though and I think that's what's missing from that list. If he dropped the excess hqs, the blitza bomba and the the koptas alone he could get zhadsnark and six units of warbikers, more if he dropped the min units of boyz. MSU bikers is a tried and true competitive tactic across every list including sm and eldar. As far as I'm concerned, our bikers may even be a bit better. 8 fast obsec bike squads also can dump out 72 tl s5 shots and put the hurt on anything not av12 and zhad has a pk that strikes at i4 and can tank shock objectives.

If you're playing against wulfen, do not let them charge you! Bikers can blast them but are fast enough to get the charge off first too.

I don't do FW because even though gw has approved their units, they didn't test them thoroughly enough and there's some ridiculous things out there (at least, there was in 6th, starting of 7th ed.) so me and my friends resided that all fw rules are a no go, including the possibly fair ones. So zhadsnark is out of the picture, even though I love him, I just won't use him.
I'll try the msu lootas. The tankbustas will stay as they are, because the combo tankbusta- looted wagon- weirdboy has played out very well the last couple of games.

Exchanging the boarding planks for reinforced rams are a no brainer, I wasn't paying attention.

The problem I'm facing its that I don't have more vehicles yet so blitzkrieg will have to wait (I used to play a nob heavy armie)

As for bikers, I only have 6 of them (including a nob) further more i have some jump infantry, a couple of walkers and a unit of burnas

So i could drop all the boarding planks, get reinforced rams, drop the bomber and get 6 warbikes incl. nob with pk and get a killsaw on one of the meganobz.
Split up the lootas, drop the mek, get gretchin instead of boyz, fill up the truck boyz units and get bosspoles on the warboss and MANz ( where was i when i wrote this list).

Blackie; you cleared up a lot, thanks. But as i don't have the money to buy a lot more vehicles or anything for that matter, i can't spam trucks and BW's

Ashkayel wrote:

- MSU lootas are awesome. They even bring the average number of shots closer to 2 per model (as you throw more D3). Also, ifm you decide to keep the whole squad together with the mek, I wonder if giving him a rokkit launcha is really a good investment. He might be out of range most of the time. However I've never faced space wolves, I'm used to armies running away from my boys;

Lootas against space wolves are very good as the wolves have poor shooting so they should be safe for at least 2-3 turns. They can cause damage to main threats as thunderwolves, wulfen, stormwolves and land speeders. Lootas could only struggle againts the Blackmanes formation with 8+ drop pods and its MSU style as there would be some unit of grey hunters or blood claws with a flamer that target the lootas since turn one. But typically there are just a couple of drop pods that land in turn one and the grey hunters or the dreads that disembark usually target some vehicle to make best use ot their plasma/melta guns and try to achieve first blood. I'd recommend lootas against space wolves, especially if going with a double CAD.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Aarsigheid wrote:

The tankbustas will stay as they are, because the combo tankbusta- looted wagon- weirdboy has played out very well the last couple of games.

Actually as the space wolves don't have an effective shooting phase that looted wagon has a real potential againts them, it can be good against blood claws or grey hunters that have disembarked from a drop pod and they can't assault that turn, so they're vulnerable for one turn, and they also don't have a cover save in many cases, or even units of fenrisian wolves if part of the game. I'd avoid targeting units with stormshields (wulfen and thunderwolves) as a blast against those units can guarantee (if not scatters) only few wounds, easily saved by their 3+ invuln. Those units should be softened by lootas or warbikers that unleash a huge number of shots. Againts wulfen you can drop some bomb squigs after positioning the vehicle towards their side or back so three bomb squigs can almost guarantee three dead wulfen (hitting on a 2+, negating armor save, FNP and instant killing them, for just 15 points) as they take the stormshields with the front models.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Aarsigheid wrote:


Blackie; you cleared up a lot, thanks. But as i don't have the money to buy a lot more vehicles or anything for that matter, i can't spam trucks and BW's

You're welcome. You're right about the vehicles, unfortunately orks are a very expensive army, but you can scratch built a lot of things, trukks and BWs quite easily. I bought just a couple of both kind of vehicles and built the remaining ones by myself, i'm aware that no one can afford to buy 5 BWs and 10 trukks, a huge amount of money just for the transports Anyway i'd suggest to play units and models you like most, you'll have fun even without fielding the most competitive orks lists available.Since you asked about what would i change in general i answered, but the real advise is to play what you like to play and to see on a battlefield because look good