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Hey all, I'm planning on going to a Kill Team tournament at my LGS in a couple weeks. IThe folks who will be there are pretty easy going list-wise so I'm not expecting anything terribly broken. I'm slowly getting back into 40K and have a small Ork collection to choose from:

10 Slugga Boyz
20 Shoota Boyz
10 Stormboyz
3 Warbikes

I was thinking of the following

Nob on Warbike w/Big Choppa
Orkboy on Warbike (specialist: Rage or Furious Charge, haven't decided)
Orkboy on Warbike (specialist: Shred)

17 Shoota Boyz
1 Shoota Boy w/ Rokkit Launcha (specialist: Master Crafted)

The bikes seemed like a good choice because they are reasonably resilient, the dakkaguns and ability to get into assault (hence the specialist abilities). I thought about giving the boyz 'eavy armor to increase their durability but that would let me run only about 10-11 boyz which makes it easier to lose enough models to have to take Break Tests. The Rokkit is there for plinging vehicles or killing the occasional MEQ. Stick him in cover and snipe away.

Any feedback and/or advice would be a real help. Thanks!

The composition is pretty solid, Bike units in general are very strong in Kill Team (particularly eldar jetbikes and tomb blades). I would highly suggest giving the one of the Ork Warbikes FNP instead, since Ork Warbikers do most of their damage in shooting rather than melee (though they can charge in if needed). Giving stealth or move through cover to one of the warbikes could also potentially be pretty good as well, since that way most of your biker units are very hard to remove without ignores cover weaponry. Also, all Ork units already come base with Furious Charge so that specialist rule is redundant.

Thanks Grimskul! I was clearly gearing the warbikes for close combat with the specialist skill but keeping them out to maximize the dakka makes a lot of sense. And you're right about the Furious Charge...don't know what I was thinking.

You may want some more anti-armor, as 1 rokkit and the dakkaguns are going to take ages to get through a rhino.

Choppy Boys in 'eavy armour can really shine in kill team with war bikers providing shooty support.

In KT I always lean towards boys before toys, outside of things like being able to take out vehicles. How expensive is a bike and what's the armor? 4+? I'm thinking against some of the regular KTs that I run and can see minor issues dealing with it.

My guard, for example: chimera, vet squad with ignores cover lascannon, 2x plasma (preferred enemy and FNP), heavy flamer. On top of the lascannon and plasma killing stuff out the back (the nob, turn 1 w/lascanon), if you charge it gets torched. Your only way of hurting me is the one rokkit or charges, and stuff dies if it gets near my chimera.

Not sure what the best solution is with what you have, just warning you that it will struggle against my strong (but nowhere near the strongest you could hit) list.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 ProwlerPC wrote:
Choppy Boys in 'eavy armour can really shine in kill team with war bikers providing shooty support.

The problem is that an armored boy is what, 10 points? I can kill 4 of those a turn with average rolling, how long until they can charge a rhino/chimera?

Doesn't sound like a proper amount of terrain for kill team if 4 melee models get shot off each turn before reaching their target. Kill team in an open prairie doesn't seem fun for the winner or loser.

I've read that transports can be very good in KT and was concerned about the lack of AT but I'm not sure what to do about it other than proxy a Deffkopta (don't have one...not a fan of the model) which will cut down on my model count. And I've gone back and forth on weather or not to go with 'heavy armor and fewer (but more durable) boyz or no armor but a lot more boyz. Lots of boys means longer until taking a break test but if they're dying in droves it may not help.

kingbobbito, no disagreement on this end...that looks like a challenging list to face.

 kingbobbito wrote:
In KT I always lean towards boys before toys, outside of things like being able to take out vehicles. How expensive is a bike and what's the armor? 4+? I'm thinking against some of the regular KTs that I run and can see minor issues dealing with it.

My guard, for example: chimera, vet squad with ignores cover lascannon, 2x plasma (preferred enemy and FNP), heavy flamer. On top of the lascannon and plasma killing stuff out the back (the nob, turn 1 w/lascanon), if you charge it gets torched. Your only way of hurting me is the one rokkit or charges, and stuff dies if it gets near my chimera.

Not sure what the best solution is with what you have, just warning you that it will struggle against my strong (but nowhere near the strongest you could hit) list.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 ProwlerPC wrote:
Choppy Boys in 'eavy armour can really shine in kill team with war bikers providing shooty support.

The problem is that an armored boy is what, 10 points? I can kill 4 of those a turn with average rolling, how long until they can charge a rhino/chimera?

And how are you going to keep your chimera alive vs this many dakkaguns?

 koooaei wrote:
And how are you going to keep your chimera alive vs this many dakkaguns?

It's 12 on the front, and I'm not going to drive madly towards the center of the map. If I can see the bikes 2 will die a turn between the lascannon and the chimera guns, and that's assuming I don't unload anyone out the back to shoot as well. If the bikes don't jink (which means plasma/heavy bolter kills them) they'll statistically deal 1.5 HP a turn between them, even less if they do jink. That gives me two turns to kill 3 bikes (which is wrong, because their chance of hurting me drops every time one dies). It's not impossible to wreck my chimera, just a lot less likely to happen than my chances of killing three bikes.

I will say that I forgot dakkaguns are S5, which ups your odds a significant bit, and these are extremely small numbers of shots so averages don't mean as much. I'd really just be worried about not wrecking a vehicle, if we use rhinos as an example instead (very unlikely to hit rear armor) your chances drop even further. Since models in a vehicle are fearless if you don't wreck it they can just chill out inside until your guys start breaking en masse.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 ProwlerPC wrote:
Doesn't sound like a proper amount of terrain for kill team if 4 melee models get shot off each turn before reaching their target. Kill team in an open prairie doesn't seem fun for the winner or loser.

If I'm up against an army that relies on getting up close I'll unload my chimera except for the flamer. I'll spread it evenly across my side so that the only way to not get shot is hiding behind LoS blocking terrain. As soon as you step out, being footslogging, you eat plasma or ignores cover lascannon or 8 lasgun shots and crumple into a heap. Even when you do hide in cover you're moving slower and still die to the lascannon or 8 lasgun shots. And that's ignoring the chimera, that just cruises around shooting heavy flamer out the hatch while the heavy bolter shoots a couple as well.

s5 3 twin-linked shots at 18". And if orks jink vs ap4 or better, they don't loose much dakka power.

 koooaei wrote:
s5 3 twin-linked shots at 18". And if orks jink vs ap4 or better, they don't loose much dakka power.

Yes, I know, that's what the 1.5 HP a turn comes from. If they're snap firing that's less than a HP a turn. Even if they jink, the nob dies to the lascannon from 1 hit, the chimera does 2 wounds which kills a 4+ jink (or they turbo boost and can't shoot as well), the preferred enemy plasma has an ~85% chance to wound per shot, the FNP plasma can get out and shoot... I have a lot of ways to kill them, you're praying for a bunch of 5/6+ on 9 dice in addition to maneuvering in a way that you can hit side armor, assuming I don't castle in a corner or against a building (possibly getting a cover save) if it's a mission that doesn't force me to do otherwise, which is a common strategy for shooty armies in KT.

You actually score 5/9 hits with those bikes or 1/3 if you jink. Between hitting and jinking, your las cannon will score an id once every ten turns. You're wound % is great! again if you purposefully ignore the jink. That 85% turns into 28%, with the 17% chance to melt yourself instead. You're also simotaneously trashing the shooting then assuming they won't jink, which they will because even if they do they're as accurate as any other ork. Once the bikes turbo boost past the chimera you're gonna have to pivot to shooting them, exposing your side and rear armour to the rest of the ork army. Your las guns wound on 6s so they cause a wound 2% of the time. Meanwhile, while you're dumping in over a hundreds points into theses guys, they're less than 20 points a pop. Dumping your heavy weapons into them is exactly what we want you to do.

E first turn is always a turbo boost. Then by the end of movement phase turn two they can be 36" away from where they deployed with 2d6 charge range and a reroll. Ya can't hide, and they can trash the chimera in cc hitting the rear armour with 12 s 4 attacks and 3 s4 how hits in one round. If there's a nob, forget it.

 kingbobbito wrote:

 koooaei wrote:
s5 3 twin-linked shots at 18". And if orks jink vs ap4 or better, they don't loose much dakka power.

Yes, I know, that's what the 1.5 HP a turn comes from. If they're snap firing that's less than a HP a turn. Even if they jink, the nob dies to the lascannon from 1 hit, the chimera does 2 wounds which kills a 4+ jink (or they turbo boost and can't shoot as well), the preferred enemy plasma has an ~85% chance to wound per shot, the FNP plasma can get out and shoot... I have a lot of ways to kill them, you're praying for a bunch of 5/6+ on 9 dice in addition to maneuvering in a way that you can hit side armor, assuming I don't castle in a corner or against a building (possibly getting a cover save) if it's a mission that doesn't force me to do otherwise, which is a common strategy for shooty armies in KT.

The Nob biker is T5 so he can't be insta gibbed by the lascannon in one shot. Slip and koooaie have covered some of the other points but your assumption that you can rely on your firepower to save you is very misguided. The majority of the missions require you to be mobile and you lack the model count to survive much incoming dakka or choppa. If you hide them in your chimera, you lose out on firepower (especially since only 2 guys can shoot out the top) and your lascannon will either be quickly shot down or charged in short order, or if he's also inside, they basically have to snapfire or not shoot everytime you scoot your chimera. Remember overwatch is on a per model basis so that D3 hits from your heavy flamer will only hit one boy. Not exactly impressive. The orks all have shootas as well so they can do damage to you at range and in melee, even potentially glancing your chimera to death thanks to its long sides. You just don't have enough heavy hitting firepower to take down enough of the boyz throughout the turns to really force a rout while the boyz can surround and overwhelm you due to lack of mobility.

 slip wrote:
You actually score 5/9 hits with those bikes or 1/3 if you jink. Between hitting and jinking, your las cannon will score an id once every ten turns. You're wound % is great! again if you purposefully ignore the jink. That 85% turns into 28%, with the 17% chance to melt yourself instead.

What are you talking about? Yes, 5 out of 9 hit, but only a third of those do anything, hence my one and a half (1.67) HP a turn, and just under a third hitting if they jink which equals less than 1 HP a turn. And no, it's an ignores cover lascannon, meaning between hitting and dead I kill one every 2 turns. Ignores cover means that yes, I purposefully ignore the jink. The point of saying that my plasma wounds often is that I'm forcing a jink, meaning less damage from shooting. And, with preferred enemy, it's a 5% chance of gets hot followed by a 4+ armor save.

You're also simotaneously trashing the shooting then assuming they won't jink, which they will because even if they do they're as accurate as any other ork. Once the bikes turbo boost past the chimera you're gonna have to pivot to shooting them, exposing your side and rear armour to the rest of the ork army. Your las guns wound on 6s so they cause a wound 2% of the time. Meanwhile, while you're dumping in over a hundreds points into theses guys, they're less than 20 points a pop. Dumping your heavy weapons into them is exactly what we want you to do.

No, I did not trash the shooting, I said what their shooting will do: 1.6 (I was off with my previous 1.5) HP a turn from 3 of them, or less than 1 a turn if they jink. And I ignore the jink because I ignore cover, and for the multilaser/HB I did include the jink, but that's still two wounds they cause together meaning a 3+ is likely a death. The bikes can't turbo boost past me if I'm sitting against my table edge or in a corner, and even then I'll just use the multilaser which still kills one every two turns.

E first turn is always a turbo boost. Then by the end of movement phase turn two they can be 36" away from where they deployed with 2d6 charge range and a reroll. Ya can't hide, and they can trash the chimera in cc hitting the rear armour with 12 s 4 attacks and 3 s4 how hits in one round. If there's a nob, forget it.

I can position myself that there isn't anything immediately next to me to hide behind. For them to be able to charge me they'll likely have at least one turn that I can shoot them, I'll kill the nob by focusing fire (multilaser, plasma, and lascannon), and a second bike will die to heavy flamer overwatch. I'm not scared of 1 charging bike, considering 12 S4 attacks is still only 1.3 HP.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Grimskul wrote:
The Nob biker is T5 so he can't be insta gibbed by the lascannon in one shot. Slip and koooaie have covered some of the other points but your assumption that you can rely on your firepower to save you is very misguided. The majority of the missions require you to be mobile and you lack the model count to survive much incoming dakka or choppa. If you hide them in your chimera, you lose out on firepower (especially since only 2 guys can shoot out the top) and your lascannon will either be quickly shot down or charged in short order, or if he's also inside, they basically have to snapfire or not shoot everytime you scoot your chimera. Remember overwatch is on a per model basis so that D3 hits from your heavy flamer will only hit one boy. Not exactly impressive. The orks all have shootas as well so they can do damage to you at range and in melee, even potentially glancing your chimera to death thanks to its long sides. You just don't have enough heavy hitting firepower to take down enough of the boyz throughout the turns to really force a rout while the boyz can surround and overwhelm you due to lack of mobility.

By no means am I trying to say my army is perfect. Against some armies, mainly massive numbers or necrons, I will really struggle. The point I'm trying to make is that I can sit in my chimera for a turn or 2 until the bikers are dead, unload everything except for the heavy flamer and the preferred enemy plasma, then roll around cooking stuff. The heavy flamer can only overwatch against one model, but it forces you to keep your units spread out so I don't shoot them all at once, preventing you from getting more than a couple charges a turn. If you do make it in with 4 or 5 models I'll either survive and kill them all, or wreck and kill them all. Once 10 models are dead orks lose because of their leadership.

What I'm also trying to say is that against any type of vehicle army you're going to have trouble (rhinos especially, can't flank it and shoot the sides, need to rely on 6s with dakkaguns). Vehicles in general are terrible if you're counting on 6s. High number of rolls makes up for it in large games, but in small games it skews far too much to rely on them. This is a good list, I like it, but I'm worried about the fact that you're relying on 3 bikes to take out any vehicles you might face. Against a non-vehicle army I really like this list.

 kingbobbito wrote:

 slip wrote:
You actually score 5/9 hits with those bikes or 1/3 if you jink. Between hitting and jinking, your las cannon will score an id once every ten turns. You're wound % is great! again if you purposefully ignore the jink. That 85% turns into 28%, with the 17% chance to melt yourself instead.

What are you talking about? Yes, 5 out of 9 hit, but only a third of those do anything, hence my one and a half (1.67) HP a turn, and just under a third hitting if they jink which equals less than 1 HP a turn. And no, it's an ignores cover lascannon, meaning between hitting and dead I kill one every 2 turns. Ignores cover means that yes, I purposefully ignore the jink. The point of saying that my plasma wounds often is that I'm forcing a jink, meaning less damage from shooting. And, with preferred enemy, it's a 5% chance of gets hot followed by a 4+ armor save.

Your math is still off, it's still less than every two two turns and the the bikes do more wounds per turn to the chimera than the other way around using your own math! That's what I'm talking about!

The plasma gun with reroll is 8% chance on one roll. You're rolling twice for two shots. The odds are double of you rolling a gets hot.

You're also simotaneously trashing the shooting then assuming they won't jink, which they will because even if they do they're as accurate as any other ork. Once the bikes turbo boost past the chimera you're gonna have to pivot to shooting them, exposing your side and rear armour to the rest of the ork army. Your las guns wound on 6s so they cause a wound 2% of the time. Meanwhile, while you're dumping in over a hundreds points into theses guys, they're less than 20 points a pop. Dumping your heavy weapons into them is exactly what we want you to do.

No, I did not trash the shooting, I said what their shooting will do: 1.6 (I was off with my previous 1.5) HP a turn from 3 of them, or less than 1 a turn if they jink. And I ignore the jink because I ignore cover, and for the multilaser/HB I did include the jink, but that's still two wounds they cause together meaning a 3+ is likely a death. The bikes can't turbo boost past me if I'm sitting against my table edge or in a corner, and even then I'll just use the multilaser which still kills one every two turns.

HoW hits the facing that you connect to. So unless you get side or rear, HoW does nothing.

I had just added in the last part of my post

He can't arrange the chimera to block all three bikers even in the corner, and it would only have moderate success finding los at all three while doing it. The range of his gun is 36", the bikers can clear that in a turn and a half, like literally on top of the spot where he is before shooting or declaring charges. he's gonna do that, get los on all three bikers, and prevent all three bikes shooting and charges when the bikers can literally be placed 1 inch away from him before declaring?

Give me a break you guys.

My experience with my orkz;

Our shooting is not good enough unless it is a warbiker.
Our mobility is bad.
Our CC is terrible because every model is it's own unit, and because of how assault works.
Our transport is open topped and can explode from str5
Our 4+ is pretty good here, for living to swing in CC and because small arms is more abundant

Mobility is top tier, warbikers, deffkoptas do well. Stormboyz are okay if you can stay out of sight. Boyz and Nobz can be okay if you give them 4+. Kommandos might not be bad for stacking up a cover save.

Once break tests start orkz lose, you need to survive, if it can't move fast it needs at least a 4+ all the time

 slip wrote:
Your math is still off, it's still less than every two two turns and the the bikes do more wounds per turn to the chimera than the other way around using your own math! That's what I'm talking about!

The plasma gun with reroll is 8% chance on one roll. You're rolling twice for two shots. The odds are double of you rolling a gets hot.

My math actually was off. I was thinking mastercrafted, not preferred enemy, so I only reroll the first if it's a one. Meaning a 1 in 6 (I was thinking 1 in 3) followed by an additional 1 in 6, which equals a 2.7% chance of getting hot (1 in 36). Further divided by 2 for 4+ armor. And I was only taking into account a single shot, not rapid fire, as I assume the first time I fire at the orks they're more than 12" away. Unless you want me to rapid fire and double my chances of killing one, while only having a 2.7% chance of failing both gets hot armor saves on the two shots.

You specifically trashed it by referring to it as "hoping for fives or sixes" ignoring the fact it's nine rolls and rerolls which makes the odds greater than 50%.

What rule is giving them a reroll on armor penetration? Yes, higher than a 50% chance to hit, but still "hoping for fives or sixes" if it wants to cause a HP. 56% chance to hit, followed by 33% chance to cause a HP, equals 18% chance of a HP.... 1.6 HPs on 9 shots. Assuming none have died or had to jink.

The HoW hits bring this up to 2. The nob that was included in could trash the chimera himself with a 5 point big choppa, so you should be scared of one biker. 4 a at s7 hitting on 3s hp on 3.

Assuming you hit side armor? It'll go from 1.3 to 1.83, which is not 2, and that's assuming none of them hit front armor. Drop by 0.16 for each hit to front armor. And again, this is assuming none of your models die.

Between a turn one boost jink, and turn two shooting and assault, mathmatically the chimera goes down every time, at best killing one biker. your ignores cover las cannon averages like 0.4 per turn, plasma 0.24, multilaser 0.12. The bikers average 1 hp shooting, and two on the charge, how many ups do you have again? These are the numbers you're banking on?

Lascannon: 2/3 hit 5/6 wound, .56 wounds. You're right on the plasma but I have 2 of those that will be firing at them. Where are you getting 0.12 on the multilaser? 3 shots, 1.5 hits, 1 wound, 0.33 failed saves. We'll assume I don't use the heavy bolter, no lasgun arrays, none of my other guardsmen on the table except for FNP plasma guy using the chimera for cover. 1.4 wounds on the nob (again, assuming he isn't the target of my heavy bolter or lasguns), he'll get to charge my chimera right? Then, assuming here he does roll his charge distance, he still gets wall of death. 2 hits, 1 wound, dead. Not saying his other guys won't get in, but again, they need 6s.

Again, I'm not saying it will play out this way every time or that my list is superior. There's a lot more in this than what we can calculate, we're talking extremely small numbers of dice, can't be sure about terrain, don't know if my chimera can hide in cover or the orks can stay out of line of sight or if any of them wreck their bikes or what have you. KT is fun because there's a high level of randomness to it that can only be avoided by taking things that are just outright better than everything else (I'm looking at you, wraiths).

All I'm saying is that purely on paper the orks will have a hard time wrecking a chimera. It's not impossible, any S4 can potentially wreck one, I'm just looking at pure statistical averages. I kill the nob, the other bikes might get in but S4 struggles against AV10. Relying on S4 is risky.

Say, perhaps, that they do take out the chimera? My guys that get out obliterate the two bikes (heavy flamer might on its own). I lost a 65 point transport, you lost a 69 point bike squad. It's turn 2, now we're on pretty equal footing, I don't know who would win this one and certainly can't do the math for it. Would boil down to if you kill my specialists before I do sufficient damage to cause a break.

All things considered, I'd be scared if another bike or 2 were added to the list.

That's 0.12 per shot for the multilaser, you have three. I estimated, was off.

You wouldn'tbe able to wipe the squad with the flamer even if you made all your hits because the nob has 2w. You don't have anything that can ID him, but you would likely remove the remaining wound with the rest of your special weapons so he would be toast.

Anywho, now you bring up the guys inside the chimera, what are they doing? Trying to get back in the game! You dumped them in the corner of the board! Lol, depending on where the bikers were, how many bikes there were, and the destroyed result, you may not even be able to deploy them on the table. The orks still got 131 points, not in the corner of the table.

 kingbobbito wrote:

 koooaei wrote:
s5 3 twin-linked shots at 18". And if orks jink vs ap4 or better, they don't loose much dakka power.

Yes, I know, that's what the 1.5 HP a turn comes from. If they're snap firing that's less than a HP a turn. Even if they jink, the nob dies to the lascannon from 1 hit, the chimera does 2 wounds which kills a 4+ jink (or they turbo boost and can't shoot as well), the preferred enemy plasma has an ~85% chance to wound per shot, the FNP plasma can get out and shoot... I have a lot of ways to kill them, you're praying for a bunch of 5/6+ on 9 dice in addition to maneuvering in a way that you can hit side armor, assuming I don't castle in a corner or against a building (possibly getting a cover save) if it's a mission that doesn't force me to do otherwise, which is a common strategy for shooty armies in KT.

One biker does 0.55 hp of damage to a chimera's side armor with it's shooting - half of which is going to be penetrating hits. 200 pts gives you 9 bikers, a biker nob and 10 pts to spare. Even if you are in cover, and only half of the bikers can shoot your side armor, it's still ~30% of one-shooting the chimera in one turn. A guaranteed wreck next turn. And than your guyz need to take a pinning test one-by-one with ld7.

Not saying bikes will be winning all the time. But you're definitely underestimating them. Maybe you need a matchup - can do it in vassal, for example.

If you do face warbikers with your chimera set up, deploy it where you would normally but use four lasgun guys or so to bubble wrap the chimera for the cover save vs shooting and to protect from charges. Then you probably would have multiple turns of shooting and better board control, and lose what, 20 points (?) instead.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 koooaei wrote:

 kingbobbito wrote:

 koooaei wrote:
s5 3 twin-linked shots at 18". And if orks jink vs ap4 or better, they don't loose much dakka power.

Yes, I know, that's what the 1.5 HP a turn comes from. If they're snap firing that's less than a HP a turn. Even if they jink, the nob dies to the lascannon from 1 hit, the chimera does 2 wounds which kills a 4+ jink (or they turbo boost and can't shoot as well), the preferred enemy plasma has an ~85% chance to wound per shot, the FNP plasma can get out and shoot... I have a lot of ways to kill them, you're praying for a bunch of 5/6+ on 9 dice in addition to maneuvering in a way that you can hit side armor, assuming I don't castle in a corner or against a building (possibly getting a cover save) if it's a mission that doesn't force me to do otherwise, which is a common strategy for shooty armies in KT.

One biker does 0.55 hp of damage to a chimera's side armor with it's shooting - half of which is going to be penetrating hits. 200 pts gives you 9 bikers, a biker nob and 10 pts to spare. Even if you are in cover, and only half of the bikers can shoot your side armor, it's still 50/50 of one-shooting the chimera in one turn. And than your guyz need to take a pinning test one-by-one with ld7.

Not have the rule book on me, what was the vehicle damage table again? I don't think the chimera is open topped like ork vehicles, not sure about the one shot. E: never mind, you meant one shot as in one turn. My bad

Chimera has relatively large side arcs. It's usually not a problem to get the bikers shoot them.

 koooaei wrote:
200 pts gives you 9 bikers, a biker nob and 10 pts to spare.

I was going off the OPs 3 bikers. I would most certainly struggle against 10 bikers, my RW or Death Company Death Riders would fare much better, but it's hard to make a kill team that accounts for everything. Most of my meta really aren't good at KT despite being much better in large games, they often try to run rhino/razorback which really struggles against my list, or tau stealth suits/fire warrior spam, or nids with a bunch of shroud, or inferior marine biker units (other than a better save they don't have nearly the killing power outside of krak grenades and cost way more, normally I'd say they're better but in KT not as much). That or the ones that still insist on playing vanguard/sternguard that just die to my stuff. Skitarii struggle against it unless they have haywire (which I pick off). Enemy guard are obviously an even-ish match unless they run a lot of foot guard.

It's funny, in 90% of scenarios orks are a weak codex in larger games (where I can run punishers and wyverns and deathstrikes/manticores and blobs and tons of flamers and I'm in the middle of building razor wire and tank traps for my aegis) but in KT they're quite powerful if you don't break them. It's funny, if I run my RW/DKoK against a shooting heavy army or genestealers I'll get trashed, I want to run them but they're mostly just a counter for other bike lists or low model count armies lacking vehicles.

Well, it's no wonder that 200 pts of guardsmen are going to dominate 54 pts of ork bikers. What are the rest of the boyz doing in the meanwhile? ;D

 koooaei wrote:
Well, it's no wonder that 200 pts of guardsmen are going to dominate 54 pts of ork bikers. What are the rest of the boyz doing in the meanwhile? ;D

Slowly slogging toward it and praying they can hit side armor AND roll a 6. Keep in mind I might kill the bikers turn 1 with lucky rolls or turn 2 with average rolls. And once they're gone I can freely take the lascannon out of the chimera and roll around spitting flames and taking names. Melee boyz will get cooked and while shooting boyz have a decent chance of hurting it I'll have a much easier time keeping front armor facing them than bikes (ride up along an edge and keeping it tilted towards the majority of them then cruising down the line) whilst the rest of my guys shoot them down, he'd have to choose emptying everything at the chimera or taking out my other stuff. I've just seen a lot of games that foot soldiers with S4 guns have trouble taking on a vehicle, whether chimera or especially rhino.

btw, is killteam always about killpoints?

Never played kill team but with 200 points i'd go with 5 bikes and a trukk full of boyz or tankbustas.

Just wanted to pop in real quick and thank everyone for the discussion. It's given me LOTS to think about!

velocitydog