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In some of the backstory you read about certain chapter home worlds containing units of trained PDF, to give an example Fenrisian Kerls during the battle of the fang, Rynn's Guard during the battle for Rynn's world, and I'm sure you could find other examples. Does every chapter homeworld train it's own PDF/Mortal military units, or are some worlds garrisoned by a guard/off-world force for protection?

It's a subject I've had a small dabble in debate with in the past, as most chapters (or so we're told) are codex adherent in the least, would they train and ship out seperate mortal soldiers for any reason? The fenrisian kerls for example, you hear about them put aboard space wolf vessels for deployments away from fenris, and cycling back home inbetween. The codex states (again, this is rarely followed especially by the chapters which have sense - personal opinion here) that they're limited to 1,000 astartese, barring command personal and such, though I can't think of a time where it's touched on the limits to mortal support - not that I can imagine it's common given typical astartese views on mortals.

As a secondary point, if anyone could list a few other PDF/Domestic mortal units on chapter homeworlds I'd appreciate it.

The Ultramar Auxilia is probably the most famous example. They are also deployed outside of Ultramar, either alongside the Ultramarines, on their own or alongside the Imperial Guard.
I do not think there is much information on whether all chapters have a militia to defend their homeworld, though I imagine a lot of them do. Someone needs to defend the chapter's planets and ships while the chapter is on deployment after all.
I don't think there are any official limits imposed on the non-Astarte assets a chapter can have, but having too many assets is definitely frowned upon by the Inquisition and other chapters. It is not accepted for Astartes to be engaged in empire-building. The Badab War touches heavily on this issue.
Speaking of the Badab War, the Tyrant's Legion was the mortal auxilia of the Astral Claws. They actually have been given an army list.

Alot will have at least a mortal force who make up the monastery's garrison and act as help doing serf roles. You need people to maintain a fortress, operate its systems and man its defences.

Its also noted serfs are considered formidable soldiers in own right, and not to be discounted.

And yes, most chapters will have one that varies depending on planet. You maybe have min one company at home and the 10th.

You need mote numbers.

...

Personal fluff I have been working on slots into that.

There doesn't have to be a limit on serfs. Space marines can use as many serfs as they need, it's just that the only things they need auxiliaries for is to crew ships and staff their facilities; it would be inconvenient to have any actual fighting units.

It sure seems like marines don't get audited. Lufgt Huron got in trouble with the Imperium for being belligerent with other worlds; it was after the war was already going to start that it became an issue that he had auxiliaries.

Landing two hundred space marines and 5000 auxiliaries for integrated operations is worse than just landing 200 marines. The auxiliaries are slow, they have to have somewhere to sleep, when they get shot they can't just go back to fighting within a couple of hours, they need to be protected and have their little camps protected, there are so many of them they need some operations controllers and support staff themselves, and those things also need to be protected.

Space marine chapters are as big as they are and have the assets they do because that is what they need to do the job they do.

There are plenty of examples of Serfs and Chapter Staff performing combat roles such as manning guns and piloting aircraft, as said earlier in the thread, but actually deploying as foot soldiers varies.

Some chapters put great emphasis on their Serfs combat abilities (The Ultramarines being prime example) while others will actively deny their Serfs combat roles (I believe that I read that about the Charcarodons or the Flesh Tearers, not sure though) so it does vary.

As to whether they're allowed... Considering Gulliman approved of non-Astartes warriors and penned the Codex himself I'd think the Codex would be alright with it, so long as they aren't raising a legion of thousands.

Yes, if they have a world with enough people and tech they probably raise a PDF of some sort. But Chapters aren't usually given such a world since the High Lords prefer it so in order to keep the marines from getting ideas.

When you recruit from the stone age hunter-gatherer bands of some nasty Death World you're happy to even get the prospects for new marines. Other Chapters might be space-borne, having no world to defend - these generally recruit as they go. Some might also be based somewhere they don't rule, like the Imperial Fists who are trusted enough to keep their HQ on Terra. They have recruitment rights but no responsibility for the regular defenses like PDF etc (though I guess they do train with such on occasion).

Astartes officially aren't allowed to command Imperial Guard.

however, there are two work arounds:

1) Chapter serfs arent troops. Theyre not deliberately placed in the front line, but since they man ships, chapter keeps, etc, they often end up in a fight anyway and would not be expected not to fight in such a situation, and being well equippped and including some failed aspirants are generally very impressive by purely mortal standards. As non-astartes, they don't count towards the 1000 man limit (which is vague anyway - apothecaries, chaplains, librarians, tank crews, fleet crews and pre-implant aspirants all not counting in the classic 'ten companies of ten squads of ten marines')

2) PDF are not legally associated with the chapter, and aren't under the marines command. Any planetary governor is expected to raise a militia to defend his world. How he does that, and to what standard he trains and equips them, is up to him.

The Ultramar Auxilia are technically PDF. Which means they are answerable to the Administratum Planetary Lord Governor, and through him to the Lord Sector. But the Lord Sector Ultramar is Marneus Augustus Calgar, Lord Macragge - a seperate legal entity occupied by the same person as the Ultramarines Chapter Master. Unlike the Master of the chapter, Lord Macragge is an administratum official, perfectly entitled to raise and clmmand PDF (as are most chapter masters, but most 'rule' feral or death worlds, and few are the lord sector as well).

So, judging by the Ultramarines example, you can definitely gain control of a significant empire and auxiliary force through bureaucracy...so long as you pay your tithe and don't draw too much attention to it

 Ynneadwraith wrote:
So, judging by the Ultramarines example, you can definitely gain control of a significant empire and auxiliary force through bureaucracy...so long as you pay your tithe and don't draw too much attention to it

But Lord Macragge, Marneus Augustus Calgar doesn't hide it. He even sends volunteer regiments to the Imperial Guard despite being excempt from the tithe of troops! Sure, he doesn't need to - but doing something like that means the whole of the Imperial bureaucrazy can keep ignoring how the UM has a fully functional sub-realm within the IoM. His realm is the realm his Primarch Guilliman had secured before the Emperor found him and as such is given a lot more leeway than anyone else could hope for.

A large number of Chapters hold some form of competition/trial for those wishing to join the ranks of the Space Marines before any implantation is done. Assuming those trials aren't to the death, then it would make sense that the chapter would induct those not good enough to become marines (or are genetically incompatible, which according to the HH books, is quite likely), into some form of militia force. Also, due to genetics, woman cant become space marines - I could quite easily see several chapters having all female militia forces because of this.

 Ynneadwraith wrote:
So, judging by the Ultramarines example, you can definitely gain control of a significant empire and auxiliary force through bureaucracy...so long as you pay your tithe and don't draw too much attention to it

pretty much. It's not uncommon for Imperial peers to violate the rules by having seperate legal personas. Cardinals are often also governors of shrine worlds. Gaunt - as a commissar - is excluded from the chain of command, but gets the permenant bolt-on rank of colonel. Most chapter masters are also lord commanders.

But it's also a matter of influence, precedence and whether sonething is inconvenient. Lugft Huron's "badab revolt" wasnt really a revolt per se - itessentially followed exactly the same legal precedent as ultramar. But unlike ultramar, badab had influential noble houses in nearby sectors whose fortunes were built on exploiting the mineral wealth of the maelstrom.....

locarno24 wrote:

 Ynneadwraith wrote:
So, judging by the Ultramarines example, you can definitely gain control of a significant empire and auxiliary force through bureaucracy...so long as you pay your tithe and don't draw too much attention to it

pretty much. It's not uncommon for Imperial peers to violate the rules by having seperate legal personas. Cardinals are often also governors of shrine worlds. Gaunt - as a commissar - is excluded from the chain of command, but gets the permenant bolt-on rank of colonel. Most chapter masters are also lord commanders.

But it's also a matter of influence, precedence and whether sonething is inconvenient. Lugft Huron's "badab revolt" wasnt really a revolt per se - itessentially followed exactly the same legal precedent as ultramar. But unlike ultramar, badab had influential noble houses in nearby sectors whose fortunes were built on exploiting the mineral wealth of the maelstrom.....

They also do not go above codex limits and refuse the gene seed tithes.