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I'm trying not to do another retread of double surge, riptide wing, or both. Here goes:

Farsight Enclaves CAD

Commander: 2x Missile Pod

Crisis Suit: Bonding Knife Ritual, 2x AFP
Crisis Suit: Bonding Knife Ritual, 2x AFP
Crisis Suit: Bonding Knife Ritual, 2x AFP

Crisis Suit: Bonding Knife Ritual, 2x Flamer
Crisis Suit: Bonding Knife Ritual, 2x Flamer

Y'Vahra: EWO
Y'Vahra: EWO
Y'Vahra: EWO

Ghostkeel Wing

Ghostkeel: Cyclic Ion Raker, Twin-linked Fusion, EWO
Ghostkeel: Cyclic Ion Raker, Twin-linked Fusion, EWO
Ghostkeel: Cyclic Ion Raker, Twin-linked Fusion, EWO

Canoptek Harvest

Spyder

3x Scarabs

6x Wraiths, Whip Coils

Total: 1848

* List Edited from original *

My goal was a totally markerlight independent list. While they are a fantastic and fluffy mechanic, every point expended in markerlights is a point that has no kinetic value. The only units in my army that lack offensive power are my two obligatory troops. The Assassin is there because, for now, invisibility is a thing. I can't afford to lose what may be my only turn to shoot at these massive close combat oriented deathstars. If he can buy me a turn to shoot at a powered-down deathstar, I think I can nuke it. I shouldn't have a problem with knights or stormsurges, I have enough disparate and potent firepower to table Gladius, and I'm at least as shooty and mobile as Eldar (or close to).

Thoughts? How can I optimize?

The only thing i can think of would be to drop the missile pod on the commander and give the ghostkeel unit target locks. Allows for splitting all that fire up against MSU if needed. It would leave you with 5 points, maybe a flamer on a suit somewhere or Donkey punch on commander for fun.

Is the OSC not 3 separate units of Ghostkeels? I've only used the Ghostkeel Wing thus far, which is 3 different units.

Yeah the OSC is 1 unit of ghostkeels not 3 like the ghostkeel wing.

Is the celexus worth it? How is he gonna survive? I ask genuinely because even though I own one I have never used him.

The 3 ghostkeels in a unit help because then "fire team" gives them +1 bs, so bs5 ignores cover with no marker lights.

Ok edited list for changes, good catch! Exaltation for all

As for the Cullexus, he will not live long. He only needs to live for 1 turn tho. He also alters deployment. Most tournaments have at least one LOS blocking piece of terrain in the center. If he alters the deathstar's deployment, or changes their vector of advance, that can win me the game. Until 8th (hopefully) scraps invisibility, I think I need him.

Epartalis wrote:


The 3 ghostkeels in a unit help because then "fire team" gives them +1 bs, so bs5 ignores cover with no marker lights.

Bs4, they are native bs3, fire-team gives bs4

If that commander isn't doing anything, switch him for a Fireblade. BS5 marker light standard and 25 points to pit elsewhere.

 pumaman1 wrote:

Epartalis wrote:


The 3 ghostkeels in a unit help because then "fire team" gives them +1 bs, so bs5 ignores cover with no marker lights.

Bs4, they are native bs3, fire-team gives bs4

BS5 in the OSC, fire team rules add +1bs, and an additonal +1bs for the wall of mirrors rule. Pretty nifty.

In regards to the list, only thing that I can think of, is the recent upsurge in 1st turn assault lists, the skyrays hulls are pretty big, so might be enough bubble-wrap. The commander sticks out like a sore thumb.

Im going to recommend you drop the celexus and Ill explain why:

The celexus assassin serves the roll of eliminating invisibility from an enemy deathstar, I get that. But the problem is positioning and survivability. He is slow, he can no longer be podded in and even with infiltrate, 12" range is problematic unless their entire army is the star.

but the problem with that is the biggest footprint star currently in the meta is Bark Bark, and that star utilizes no psychic powers so the celexus would not be necessary anyways. Even for daemon armies that are heavily psychic oriented, they have too many tools to dispose of the celexus that bipass his needing 6s to hit. Screamers turbo, FMC vector strike, flames, etc. Remember, all it takes is 6 wounds on a celexus to kill him...that's it.

So changes I would make from experience:
Drop the celexus, this frees up your third detachment and allows you to do some optimizing (pun intended, wink*). I have found that the OSC works best when seperated to singular kheels. Believe me, I know how amazing it is to make them BS5 when sticking together, but that unit is INCREDIBLY vulnerable to assault. The kheels can dish out some damage in assault, but a single khorne dog unit can fairly easily catch and trap that unit for the entire game. Remember, a kheels max range is 24" (6" move and 18" range guns) so they will always be close to the enemy in order to dish out their damage.

So if you want to run OSC, I would suggest you run 2 of them, with singular kheels, and run them as MSU pods of nastyness that has a bigger board footprint and threat range. This also means you have 4 units of stealths, instead of 2, and the stealths are made infinitely more effective when close to their parent kheel.

This will also leave some points to be invested in guns for your suits and commander, which I think normally would be a waste to not equip them at all.

I am also not sure you need two skyrays, but if that is your preference, then go for it. As for crisis equipment, let me suggest a weapon system I have only ever seen myself use. AIRBURST FRAGS. Taking double airburst frag launchers is actually AMAZING for solo suits. The weapon is large blast, which mittigates their BS3, ignores cover automatically, which follows your idea of markerlight independence, and as a barrage weapon you can keep them behind walls and still blast away. If you are worried that they will not be able to inflict damage due to the enemy being under ruin levels (barrage only hits top level) then just give them whatever you are comfortable with. But I highly recommend trying it, I have had great results especially in the MSU oriented meta. Nothing quite like enraging your opponents with a guy blind lobbing grenades from behind a wall.

Anyways, I hope this was helpful.

Good luck!

Okay, thank you everyone for your input. I've altered the list significantly without breaking my self-imposed "no riptide wing or stormsurge" rule.

I totally understand the assault vulnerability of a maxed OSC. The problem is, I don't have enough faith in stealth suits to field 360 points worth of them by doubling up on small OSC's. They're too fragile and I've seen them run off the table after one of them dies too many times.

I still feel the need to have some counter to close combat deathstars. The Canoptek Harvest is as fast and resilient a speed bump as 40k has to offer. (I also happen to own one). What do you think about its inclusion?

Switching from OSC to GKW lowers their ballistic skill buff, but 2 of them will still be BS4 if they shoot at the same target. (often will be the case)

Thoughts?

Why ATS on Y-tides?

What else can I do with 9 points?

Drop all the ATS for 15 points,

Buy something else for the commander

Drop all the ATS and an EWO on a Keel for 20 points, buy a VT

Drop all the ATS and an EWO on a keel and run shadowsun instead

Drop all the ATS and the 2 missile pods for 45 points, add a XV81 to the commander (SMS) so he can hide and still shoot and add a VT to the last keel.

Drop all the ATS and a Suit and pick up 2 suits with 2 flamers each.

Drop all the ATS and a suit and get FNP on 2 Y-tides


Just brain storming.

Exalted; I adopted the AFP and Flamer suggestions.

Thanks!

Airbursting frag and cyclic ion are now kinda great weapons as they can be taken in pairs and not just on a commander.

I don't like increasing to two OSC's and here's why. The extra +1 bs first off. But secondly 180 points more tax worth of stealth suits. I hate to say it but they aren't competitive in terms of points efficiency, and t3 really sucks all around. But they are vunerable to assault...taking counterfire defense systems for bs2 overwatch helps but probably not enoungh.

I find that despite my best efforts as tau against competant players I end up in assault. My only saving grace is it's usually only 1 or 2 squads that make it that far so I just group up and use tau supporting fire and counterfire defense systems to make them pay dearly for every inch. Usually even if they kill what they assualted they are too warn down to survive the next volley.

Also use those jump moves on your jet infantry. Probably a little captain obvious there but it is the best way to keep distance between you and the enemy of tau: cc.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Or you can just add a canopteck harvest for tar pit...

Even better if you don't mind a bit of fluff bending. Now that's a good anti meta tau list. God that's a lot of flamers...