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I'm recreating my Dark Angels librarian models since they were the first I painted and don't hold up. I haven't played with more than 1 in awhile, but am looking into running a Librarius conclave in the next campaign at my FLGS.
That being said, as I am building them I am wondering what everyone thinks is the best weapon type now. The "new" meta is going to see a lot more chaos space marines on the table, including DPs, and i'm sure a lot of lords of change.

I'm thinking to mix it up, sword on Ezekiel since he'll be with heavy hitters that don't need more ap2 help, and then axe or stave on biker librarians with black knights. What do you think is the best to use now?

You still see a lot of 3+ saves.

As for the Axe vs Sword question.
It depends on who he is with. If you have him in a squad with a regular Sgt. Then the Sgt can accept or delcare challenges so the Axe can go to work at I1 otherwise the Axe will often get killed before he gets to hit unless you tool up the Libby with some defensive upgrades to keep him a alive better.

Axe is statistically so far ahead of the Staff against anything with a 3+ or better that it's not funny and the Sword is basically for T4 or less 3+ armour only and even then it's not a huge advantage. The real wrinkle comes when you consider Invulnerable saves and initative. This is where the Staff really makes up lost ground as the difference between the Staff going first but bouncing off 2+ armour or the Axe going last but bouncing off a 3++ is much of a muchness when you usually only need 1 wound to go through. At the end of the day, a large part depends on your meta, but if you've got another character to eat challenges, I'd be going with the Axe. If you're planning on rolling Biomancy though with any regularity, then the Staff is a clear winner as Smash from Iron Arm gives you AP2 that was the only plus from the axe and Warp Speed hands out +3 Init that is also wasted on the Axe. For my Psychers who have a choice of weapon, I tend to favour the Staff, but a healthy dose of Axes certainly never gets overlooked, especially on my psychers who are likely to survive to I1 to be able to swing.

Can you take spear? Spear on a bike gonna look awesome!

I generally avoid swords like the plague when I can. AP3 isn't exactly 'Bad', but lets compare a Power Sword hit to a Power Maul hit against a Space Marine equivalent:
The Maul gets .84 wounds, and two thirds of those are going to be saved - .28 wounds.
The sword gets .5 wounds. No saves - .5 wounds.

So, the sword gets only around 80% more damage, against its ideal targets. Against any other target, be it 2+ armor, 3+ with an invuln, or 4+/worse, the Maul is going to be about 70% more deadly than the sword. MEQ is common, but it's not THAT common.

Axes are a bit more of a question. Axes cause a much close amount of damage compared to a maul (Getting .67 wounds against T4 to the Maul's .84), and will do much, much better against both 2+ and 4+ armor, but of course you're losing Initiative to get to hit. Generally speaking, most enemies worth killing in Melee are going to hit at at least I4 anyways, unless they have some version of a Power Fist/Unwieldy weapon of their own. They're going to get to strike you in most conditions. So, taking the axe doesn't lose you out on much, so long as you can tank the damage so that you don't get killed before you can swing back.

Ultimately, I go about 2-1 Maul-Axe ratio, though my Meta is against a lot of Daemons, many of whom lack armor and have good invulns, making the Strength bonus a lot more important.

I play Grey Knights so I arm my Libby's with Nemesis Force Hammers.

More often that not they are Instant killing most targets without force.

I can also pop hammer hand to Instant Kill T5

Or I can pop force to kill thing T6 on a 2+

Or I can pop Force and Hammerhamd to Instant kill things with T7 & T8 on a 2+

It works out nicely since I can give a hammer to 2 Librarian's for the same cost as a single hammer for a squad member. It's just a bonus that the Librarian's are also WS5 so hit better. If I have points Master Crafted can also go a long way too.

Thanks for the responses gents!
I'll be rocking ezekeil who keeps the sword, so it looks like a staff and an axe for the biker librarians.\

staff on a bike will look weird, need to think of a good conversion. any ideas?

He needs to be holding it like a jousting lance, obv

Staff and Maul work exactly the same in the rules, just like Axe and Spear use the same rules on the table as well.

So you can model your Librarian with a Force Maul and it'll work the exact same functionally as a staff in game but look a lot cooler on the bike and be easier to model as well.

Also, you can put me firmly in the Staff/Maul camp:



(Helps that there's a Blood Angel Force Staff Relic you can add to a Librarian too)

When I roll on Biomancy and get Iron Arm + Furious Charge with the + 2 strength from the staff he's swinging at ST:10.

Always fun when your non special character power armored guy is swinging at ST:10. Makes people sit up and take notice.

Take it easy.

-Red__Thirst-

It's also important to consider what disciplines you are going to use. Biomancy, for example, has powers that improve your Initiative so if your Librarian has an ax he won't benefit from that aspect of the power. There are other blessing that increase your AP or your Strength and the sword is a little more efficient at getting the most out of those, too.

So if I'm trying to pile blessings on my Librarian to kill stuff I take a sword. Otherwise I take an ax or staff.

That's a good point: If you're rolling on Biomancy, you should never use anything except the Maul. Iron Arm makes you AP2 anyways, so you don't need the axe or sword, and Warp Speed makes the Axe a handicap more than a boon. That Librarius power that gives +2 to S, A, I, and T is also a good one for the staff, because while it doesn't boost your AP, it does make you an absolute nightmare against hordes. Using that along with the other power that gives two bonus S5 hits against enemies whenever you hit, and you become an absolute nightmare under the right circumstances. (Tigurius in a Conclave could potentially get Iron Arm, Warp Speed, and Might of Heroes all together. That's 10 S10 AP2 attacks at I9.)

Swords for MEQ
Axes if you want AP2
Mauls for everything else.

In general I prefer the maul/staff. Most of the things you need to use force on are either tough, have an invuln, or both. So I’d rather have the extra +2S to get a wound in. And if they are getting a invuln save anyway, the sword’s effectiveness drops off dramatically.

I don’t think librarians are sturdy enough to use an unwieldy weapon. Maybe in TDA, or if tricked out in other ways, but not for general use.

Space wizards should also have magic staffs. They just look better.

Great thoughts by everyone, i appreciate the help.

Unfortunately Dark Angels don't get access to Biomancy, otherwise Iron Arm would be a no brainer.

For BA, the sword is a little nicer because it lets us take advantage of init. Charging at S5, it might be worth adding digital lasers for more instant death goodness.

I have been inspired by this thread to build a new Libby and to test him out.

I am going with a Level 2 Terminator Libby with Storm Shield and Maul from the Iron Hands Chapter. I will trial him with several different Psychic Power Combos to see how he goes.

I will also play a few games with him Allied into my Grey Knights to see how he goes combined with Hammer Hand.

I prefer the stave with Iron Arm

As an update, i played a couple quick games this weekend and the staff/maul did the most work. A little biased though, as it was against admech.

I absolutely froze when picking powers tho. Sooooo many different lines to pick from. I ended up cherry picking and rolling poorly so i had a bunch of so-so useless powers for the game.

What is everyones strategy for picking powers?

depends on my opponent.

I like biomancy for iron arm and warp speed to but him in combat.

however having a change at endurance for unit buffing and enfeeble for enemy debuffing is good as well.

Also the primaris isn´t bad.

Is this guy part of multiple librarians or just a solo? does he need to help the army or buff a super unit?

When using formations, i use a Dark Angels Librarius conclave: Ezekeil and two bike librarians.

When using a CAD it's just 2 librarians, at least one on bike

I use my librarians in three ways:

To bolster an assault unit, in which case I almost take Biomancy as most of the powers can help in assault or at least help with not dying on the way to assault.

To bolster a 'deathstar' type unit with multiple characters (not a true deathstar as I'm too much of a fluff bunny for that) in which case I usually take Librarius or Divination, as they have the most generally useful buffs to help the other characters.

As my warlord in small games (1000 points or so) in which case I either take Divination, if I have something worth buffing, or Telekinesis/ Telepathy, if I need more guns to zap the enemy.

I seldom use Pyromancy, or the electric or earth powers from 'Angels of Death' as their powers can be a bit fiddly to apply. Technomancy I like as I take a lot of tanks and its powers are broadly useful, while Sanctic Demonology can be good if you have a specific plan for its powers.

If you're playing Dark Angels their unique powers (Interromancy?) are pretty good, based on how many times my guys have had their brains fried by that nonsense.

I know this thread is about Force Weapons but I am curious to know if anyone have used the Burning Blade with a Librarian?

It would be amazing on a Terminator Libby with a Storm Shield and Biomancy. 2+/3++ WS5 S7 AP2 weapon with a good chance of getting boosted abilities from Biomancey.

I also think a Libby like this would benifit from Brother-Captian Stern being able to cast Sanctuary & Hammerhand. We are getting to the points realm of a Deathstar now though but why not throw in 1 or 2 more Libby's rolling to invisibility as well. What ever they touch will basically be removed from the game with little to no effort.

 Sinji wrote:
I know this thread is about Force Weapons but I am curious to know if anyone have used the Burning Blade with a Librarian?

It would be amazing on a Terminator Libby with a Storm Shield and Biomancy. 2+/3++ WS5 S7 AP2 weapon with a good chance of getting boosted abilities from Biomancey.

I also think a Libby like this would benifit from Brother-Captian Stern being able to cast Sanctuary & Hammerhand. We are getting to the points realm of a Deathstar now though but why not throw in 1 or 2 more Libby's rolling to invisibility as well. What ever they touch will basically be removed from the game with little to no effort.

Too expensive, for too little. That's 65 points, plus 25, plus 25, plus 15, plus 55. 185 points. On a model with 2 attacks.
Normally that 2 attacks gets boosted to 3, but in termie armor and with a Storm Shield, it's no dice.
If you get Iron Arm, you're up to S10, but still only have 2 attacks. If you get Warp Speed, you're marginally better off, but other than the I7 it's nothing that you wouldn't get from a Captain with a similar build. (And I5 is almost as good as I7 anyways, passing the I4 threshhold is the important thing.)

Finally, consider that a Power Maul with Iron Arm is already S9. The Burning Blade barely helps in that context.

Waaaghpower wrote:

 Sinji wrote:
I know this thread is about Force Weapons but I am curious to know if anyone have used the Burning Blade with a Librarian?

It would be amazing on a Terminator Libby with a Storm Shield and Biomancy. 2+/3++ WS5 S7 AP2 weapon with a good chance of getting boosted abilities from Biomancey.

I also think a Libby like this would benifit from Brother-Captian Stern being able to cast Sanctuary & Hammerhand. We are getting to the points realm of a Deathstar now though but why not throw in 1 or 2 more Libby's rolling to invisibility as well. What ever they touch will basically be removed from the game with little to no effort.

Too expensive, for too little. That's 65 points, plus 25, plus 25, plus 15, plus 55. 185 points. On a model with 2 attacks.
Normally that 2 attacks gets boosted to 3, but in termie armor and with a Storm Shield, it's no dice.
If you get Iron Arm, you're up to S10, but still only have 2 attacks. If you get Warp Speed, you're marginally better off, but other than the I7 it's nothing that you wouldn't get from a Captain with a similar build. (And I5 is almost as good as I7 anyways, passing the I4 threshhold is the important thing.)

Finally, consider that a Power Maul with Iron Arm is already S9. The Burning Blade barely helps in that context.

Excellent points.

Also if you are looking for Iorn Arm that makes you AP2. So the staff is now 3 attacks Str 9 AP2

 rawne2510 wrote:
Also if you are looking for Iorn Arm that makes you AP2. So the staff is now 3 attacks Str 9 AP2

I honestly like running my Libby with Terminator Armour. Not so much for the 2+ save as most things can punch through that easy enough these days but for the 5+ Invo. It's not great but it's better than nothing you lose an attack from giving up a close combat weapon but gain a bit of durability. Taking the Storm Sheild adds a bit more defense again and actually makes it possible to dodge some Lascannon Shots or Melta guns which are normally not what you want to be shooting at you.

I find survivability is better than combat effectiveness most of the time especially if your Libby is your Warlord. Losing the 1 attack is a fair trade off IMO.

Being an Iron Hands Libby and getting IWND is also useful in situations when you take one of your own wounds from a perils or a stray bolter shot etc. Also getting Life Leech from Biomancy can be good too to give your Libby some regen.

I will also run my Libby with a Command Squad 9 times out of 10 to get FNP being an Iron Hands Libby he get +1 to his FNP getting a 4+ to make him that bit more durable.

Maybe I am just overly paranoid about him dying but regardless I would much prefer him adding to the game as opposed to spectating from my dead Marine Pile.

I have one Libby with a Sword and another with a Staff. I tend to go Biomancy with the Sword Libby, so he hits at Str 7 AP2 if I get Iron Arm. He is still pretty useful even if I don't get it.

I always give whichever one I am using the Bones of Osrak for a free Warp charge and rerolling failed psychic tests.

Nemesis Warding Staff is the best Force weapon for a Libby. >_>

SJ

yes but only GK can use them

Only GK are worthy taking. /wink

SJ

come get my bare slaanesh arse