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So do the bonuses affect characters that are part of this unit? Do the bonuses persist after the ICs leave? If not can other ICs gain the bonuses by joining?

So a couple of points.
-ICs can join units during deployment and count as being part of that unit.
-Jokaero grant their bonuses to the whole unit.
-The bonuses last for the whole game.

It seems like this could go either way for a lot of things.

Position #1: Inconceivable Customization is granted to the unit, which the ICs are part of. It lasts for the whole game, so if the unit splits up that doesn't matter. OTOH, any late-joining models weren't there when the bonuses were given out. (This also makes practical sense given what the rule is supposed to represent, similar to Vulkan allowing characters in his detachment to get MC weapons.)
Position #2: The rule is given to the unit and only models part of it get the benefit. (I can see the argument for this one with RAW, but there's no other rule that belongs to a unit as opposed to the models contained in that unit? Other bonuses granted to units end when the giver is removed as a casualty or when ICs leave the unit, but this rule explicitly lasts for the rest of the game.)
Position #3: You hate space monkeys and believe their rules only benefit the models part of the henchman warband. (This becomes super simple and the unit becomes way overcosted.)

The unit gains the bonus and when an ic joins the unit, it becomes part of the unit. So as long as an ic joins the unit, he gains the benefit. When he leaves the unit he losses the benefit.

Does the rule in question specifically say it affects ICs (or is worded like Stubborn)? If not then ICS would not benefit.

its worded that the unit gains benefit X

terry wrote:
its worded that the unit gains benefit X

Then any attached ICs do not benefit.

 Happyjew wrote:
Does the rule in question specifically say it affects ICs (or is worded like Stubborn)? If not then ICS would not benefit.

The FAQ seems to make this interpretation look like the right one:

Q: Do rules applying to ‘the unit’, such as those from Formation special rules (e.g. the Skyhammer Annihilation Force), or unitwide special rules such as Dunestrider from Codex: Skitarii apply to any attached Independent Characters?
A: No. The Formation special rules themselves do not apply to characters that join the Formation (unless specifically stated otherwise), although they may confer other special rules which do apply to characters that have joined units, such as Stealth or Stubborn.

But looking at the wording for Stubborn or Stealth, they don't specifically call out ICs that join units and as far as I can tell there's no list of rules that work one way and a list that work the other way unless I'm missing something?

Does a pain boy attached to a boyz squad, give FNP to a np attached warboss?

The rule applies to the unit, it isn't a unit wide special rule. The FAQ does not support happy interpretation

nosferatu1001 wrote:
Does a pain boy attached to a boyz squad, give FNP to a np attached warboss?

The rule applies to the unit, it isn't a unit wide special rule. The FAQ does not support happy interpretation

Painboyz have Doc's Tools, which, as long as the bearer is alive, all models in his unit have the Feel No Pain special rule. Is the IC a model in the unit? Yes. Therefore he has FNP.

Does the Jokaero special rule affect the unit, or does it affect the models in the unit? I asked earlier and was told "The unit has "X"". Which if true, would not apply to ICs.

nosferatu1001 wrote:
Does a pain boy attached to a boyz squad, give FNP to a np attached warboss?

The rule applies to the unit, it isn't a unit wide special rule. The FAQ does not support happy interpretation

Here's the problem. Stealth applies to "a unit containing at least one model which...". The FAQ specifically calls Stealth out as a benefit that applies to characters which have joined the unit. You will note that Stealth doesn't say models in a unit... it says the unit. So as far as I can tell, some rules are obvious because they apply to a specific model and all models in the unit have it or don't (like Relentless). A couple (Stubborn and Stealth) are called out by the FAQ as applying to ICs joining the unit. Everything else is a guess whether or not this applies because the wording isn't really that different from Stubborn/Stealth.

I suspect GW treats the difference as a unit having a special rule that says "the unit..." treats it as having been applied to the unit before an IC joins. With the wording "a unit containing at least one model with this rule", it can apply to the unit after the IC has joined, as you can check for that after the IC is part of the unit. It's still not the clearest as to why they have it working that way. All we know is the ones called out use that "a unit containing at least one model with this rule" format.

 doctortom wrote:
I suspect GW treats the difference as a unit having a special rule that says "the unit..." treats it as having been applied to the unit before an IC joins. With the wording "a unit containing at least one model with this rule", it can apply to the unit after the IC has joined, as you can check for that after the IC is part of the unit. It's still not the clearest as to why they have it working that way. All we know is the ones called out use that "a unit containing at least one model with this rule" format.

Well, the rule says: "When a unit containing one or more Jokaero is deployed..." ICs can be deployed with the unit, so I don't see how they wouldn't benefit given the way Stubborn and Stealth are worded. The question is does "All results apply for the duration of the game." mean that all models get to keep the bonus even if the unit breaks up. That seems like the most reasonable interpretation of the words written, and possibly the intent, but it also creates an incentive to take 6 jokaero, stick every IC you have into that unit and then leave turn 1.

Mavnas wrote:
Well, the rule says: "When a unit containing one or more Jokaero is deployed..." ICs can be deployed with the unit, so I don't see how they wouldn't benefit given the way Stubborn and Stealth are worded. The question is does "All results apply for the duration of the game." mean that all models get to keep the bonus even if the unit breaks up. That seems like the most reasonable interpretation of the words written, and possibly the intent, but it also creates an incentive to take 6 jokaero, stick every IC you have into that unit and then leave turn 1.

IC's can only be deployed with the unit when coming from Reserves. During Deployment, one is put in to Coherency with the other, indicating a "not at the same time" scenario.

 Happyjew wrote:

nosferatu1001 wrote:
Does a pain boy attached to a boyz squad, give FNP to a np attached warboss?

The rule applies to the unit, it isn't a unit wide special rule. The FAQ does not support happy interpretation

Painboyz have Doc's Tools, which, as long as the bearer is alive, all models in his unit have the Feel No Pain special rule. Is the IC a model in the unit? Yes. Therefore he has FNP.

Does the Jokaero special rule affect the unit, or does it affect the models in the unit? I asked earlier and was told "The unit has "X"". Which if true, would not apply to ICs.

The rule is written in the template 'all models in the unit have X' or 'all weapons in the unit have X'

So . . . the rule would include the IC if the IC is part of the unit during deployment.




However, Charistoph is pointing to a possible problem of sequencing relating to how exactly the IC becomes part of a unit at deployment.



I don't think there is an issue there though. The rule uses 'already' which indicates that when the Inquisitorial Henchmen Warband is deployed in coherency with an IC the IC is already with the unit.

In other words the granting of the Inconceivable Customisation abilities happens to models or weapons in a unit that already has the IC attached to it.