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Stormboyz are 9pts a model with jump packs. They are literally the same as boyz except they get +6inches of movement and can double use the pack to get an extra D6 inch movement in the shooting phase. But if they do so they lose about 15-16% of their boyz.

My suggested change is to allow the double use of the jump pack without a penalty and to change it to a guaranteed 6 +D6 movement instead of 2D6 in the shooting phase.

Yeah, that'd be fine. It's not the most Orky, but it makes Stormboyz better, and the Orks could really use a buff.

Guaranteed 19" movement with no penalties?

Sounds a little off I think... With a risk involved, yes, without one, no.

(And before the inevitable argument starts over this, I don't think Stormboyz are fine as they are; this just doesn't sound like a reasonable solution )

I rather find a middle ground where its 2D6 but instead of everyone taking dangerous terrain checks its just that on doubles a random stormboy dies.

Why is it necessary to kill our own models? Bikes move a guaranteed 24" a turn (or more for Jetbikes) and we don't think they need to start killing themselves.

Because it's Orky! Specifically, because Ork tech is not the most reliable, and Stormboyz have a gorram rocket strapped to their asses.

That being said, while fluffwise I'm not a huge fan of them being totally safe, mechanically it's fine.

Ork technology should be unreliable, but with big payoffs when it works.

That doesn't mean stop Shootas from firing whenever you roll a 1, but when you can potentially leap 24" across the board, there should be some kind of risk you would need to take; not as extreme as every model taking a dangerous terrain test - something like 1 test across the board, or 1 test per 5 models.

I would rather they showed the unreliability in a way that didn't kill my own models in such high numbers, we've already got to contend with enough dangerous terrain tests because if you're not in cover you'll be dead soon. Terrain is only marginally safer than no cover for a Stormboy because you'll have to take a difficult terrain test once in each phase per piece of terrain you go on. To add an additional difficult terrain test to that seems like salt in the wound.

Semper Mortis' idea isn't a bad, unfluffy or overpowered one but I would rather keep the 2D6 run and lose the additional DT test or at least mitigate it's effects.

xlDuke wrote:
Why is it necessary to kill our own models? Bikes move a guaranteed 24" a turn (or more for Jetbikes) and we don't think they need to start killing themselves.

Because they are running and with a WAAAGH!!! you can run and charge. 12" + 2d6 Run + a 2d6 charge with a single die reroll is a heck of a long threat range. Granted Stormboyz certainly aren't TWC or Wulfen in terms of melee punching power but Orks can still smack about a fair amount of shooty units. The issue with the current 2D6 run is that it comes at the cost of probably killing roughly15% of the squad and just a tiny bit of bad luck can force some stupid mob rule checks.

xlDuke wrote:
I would rather they showed the unreliability in a way that didn't kill my own models in such high numbers, we've already got to contend with enough dangerous terrain tests because if you're not in cover you'll be dead soon. Terrain is only marginally safer than no cover for a Stormboy because you'll have to take a difficult terrain test once in each phase per piece of terrain you go on. To add an additional difficult terrain test to that seems like salt in the wound.

Not all terrain is area terrain, and you don't always have to come into contact with terrain to claim cover saves. The ideal tactic that has always been with Stormboyz is to hide them from as much enemy fire as possible with LOS blocking terrain until they're close enough to start an assault.

Semper Mortis' idea isn't a bad, unfluffy or overpowered one but I would rather keep the 2D6 run and lose the additional DT test or at least mitigate it's effects.

That would be another way of being unreliable, yes. I'd settle for this.

 Vankraken wrote:

xlDuke wrote:
Why is it necessary to kill our own models? Bikes move a guaranteed 24" a turn (or more for Jetbikes) and we don't think they need to start killing themselves.

Because they are running and with a WAAAGH!!! you can run and charge. 12" + 2d6 Run + a 2d6 charge with a single die reroll is a heck of a long threat range. Granted Stormboyz certainly aren't TWC or Wulfen in terms of melee punching power but Orks can still smack about a fair amount of shooty units. The issue with the current 2D6 run is that it comes at the cost of probably killing roughly15% of the squad and just a tiny bit of bad luck can force some stupid mob rule checks.

They've got a decent threat range but in a world where the "Curse" of the Wulfen actually buffs your army and Stormboyz aren't particularly scary to anything at all that can't avoid them easily I dont think it's unreasonable to want my Stormboyz to kill themselves a bit less than we're used to. You've got to position properly, survive a shooting phase or two, take a Warboss and keep him alive in order to make the most of Stormboyz - a little reward for building a bit of synergy into your list and tactical gameplay seems legitimate.

 General Annoyance wrote:

xlDuke wrote:
I would rather they showed the unreliability in a way that didn't kill my own models in such high numbers, we've already got to contend with enough dangerous terrain tests because if you're not in cover you'll be dead soon. Terrain is only marginally safer than no cover for a Stormboy because you'll have to take a difficult terrain test once in each phase per piece of terrain you go on. To add an additional difficult terrain test to that seems like salt in the wound.

Not all terrain is area terrain, and you don't always have to come into contact with terrain to claim cover saves. The ideal tactic that has always been with Stormboyz is to hide them from as much enemy fire as possible with LOS blocking terrain until they're close enough to start an assault.

Indeed that is ideal but small squads with no armour save rolling multiple DT tests and the ensuing Mob Rule rolls will destroy your squad in your own turn and larger mobs are harder to hide.

I'd be ok with something fun like the guaranteed 6+D6 in the shooting phase but on a roll of a 1 a single boy (cannot be a character) loses control and dies. Pick a point within 12". Roll 2D6 and scatter a small blast, inflicting a single S4 AP- hit on any models under the template. Then move the unit the 7"?

But that's just off the top of my head. At least that way it could POTENTIALLY be a good thing?

But I think they should be able to buy 'eavy armour, anyway (and I think eavy armour should go down by 1ppm in general).

edit: Maybe they move the 7" then one scatters 2D6 and goes boom?

I would suggest maybe keeping it as an additional 2D6, but maybe on a roll of "1" on either die a Storm Boy detonates. Just one though

Put the extra 1d6 of movement in the movement phase rather than while running. that makes it more useful, since you can assault after using it anytime rather than only during a Waaagh!

I think "eldar shenanigans" in movement are indeed annoying, but giving the same shenanigans to other races is not the way to fix it. The whole tactical aspect kind of becomes moot when you can essentially decide to relocate to any point of the board at will.

Maybe give them bonuses to the Dangerous Terrain tests if: 1) you call a Waaagh!, 2) Zagstruck joins the unit, 3) the unit is above 10 models, and/or 4) they've been on the battlefield for a certain number of turns, and if they fulfill more than one they don't have to test. Those are my ideas for how to make them less self-destructive.

 gnome_idea_what wrote:
Maybe give them bonuses to the Dangerous Terrain tests if: 1) you call a Waaagh!, 2) Zagstruck joins the unit, 3) the unit is above 10 models, and/or 4) they've been on the battlefield for a certain number of turns, and if they fulfill more than one they don't have to test. Those are my ideas for how to make them less self-destructive.

The problem with this is that this is most important on Turn 1 and Turn 2. Turn 1 because you need to get into position and going 12 + (2D6 or 6+1D6) is really important and on turn 2 your going to be using your Waaagh to guarantee that 2nd turn assault.

So for your suggestions on Suggestion 1: You cant Waaagh unless your taking the Ghazcurion which sucks and you can't really play it under 1850. So it won't benefit Stormboyz on turn 1, which is the most likely turn they are going to use this ability.

Suggestion 2:Zagstruck sucks Hes a 65pt model that is worse then a warboss and better then a nob. So you're taking an already under performing unit (Stormboyz) and forcing them to take a 65pt HQ unit that sucks.

Suggestion 3: minimum size for a Stormboyz unit is 5, max is 30. So this could work but your forcing people to invest HEAVILY into an under performing unit. Keep in mind they are still T4 6+ models so they will die when sneezed at. And when they take those all important mob rule tests they are going to lose even more models, so this suggestion is quickly gotten rid of.

Suggestion 4: If they are alive by turn 3 something miraculous has happened. Again, T4 6+ saves means they die a lot. They are just fast Boyz after all and when they get into CC they aren't safe there either. On average a Tactical squad will kill 3-4 every shooting phase and in CC another 2-3. So realistically this won't help them at all because its to situational and that situation is RARE!

I've been trying to use stormboyz some time ago and here are some things that i've got out of them.

Large squads are not going to work cause this 3 ppm are going to add up quickly and you're going to end up with more expensive more fragile (without a trukk) and less reliable choppaboyz without the msu advantage.

The potential waaagh+charge is an interesting tool but VERY unreliable. One game you're going to make a 30" charge, another game you're going to fail a couple dangerous terrain tests and than fail the ld7 check and run off the board.

They are VERY fragile for the points. If you think about it, 3 points for an ork boy with 6+ armor is 1.5 the ork boy. They are faster but you pay for it with the fast attack slot and inability to hide inside a trukk.

They really have nothing to do other than a random chance for a very long charge with a possible outcome of them being a waste of points.

Trukkboyz are better most of the time. Cause of trukks.

I agree. What I do with these guys when I run them is target overload. I have a Couple Battlewagons full of Boyz, 2 trukks with boyz/Tankbustas/Meganobz and a squad or two of Warbikers and then I run 3 squads of 10 Stormboyz with Nob/PK. (Double CAD)

What this does is makes them easier to get into combat because the enemy has to prioritize targets. Do they focus fire the AV14 Battlewagons filled with 20 boyz or do they fire at a unit of 10 stormboys who are probably hiding behind something? The handful of times I have run this build it worked fairly well. Don't get me wrong though, they are still just boyz who are pathetically weak with the power creep but its always fun to watch your opponents face as EVERYTHING moves 12in minimum a turn.

I think they're completely useless as they have the same role of trukk boyz but without being troops and being actually more fragile. I think they could be an option only in a strong formation or decurion as a mandatory tax, but since there's nothing like that in orks books i'm completely ok with having no stormboyz in my army.

Can stormboyz Deep Strike in the current rules? Ours can, and they can take a couple burnas too. We use old speed mechanic too - an extra D6 movement but a 1 causes a wound.