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Hi guys,

So I recently had the chance to grab the harlies half of the deathwatch box set, while simultaneously falling in love with the new models coming out for the eldar as well as Eldrad. So looks like Eldarquins are my next investment.

I have every model available for the Necrons (Bar 2 FW units) but this is quite a cost prohibitive way of building an army. So now I create an 1850 points list around a theme/favourite models in an army, buy, build and paint it, and then move on to a new army while I play with it (E.G I have a mechanised KDK list as I love the deamon engines they have. Brazen Beasts FTW!)

My meta is mid-low teir armies (IG, Nids, GK, BA, Orks, AdMech), and I find I'm constantly powering down my 'crons so everyone has a fun time. I have no problem doing this as it gives me tons of fun things to try out as the 'crons are a very versatile army. My problem with Eldar/harlequins is I have had literally 0 exposure to them, and Im worried that it's going to be too strong, even without bringing cheese. My list is:

CAD:
Eldrad
5x Wraithblades w/ axe & shield in a wave serpent
3x windriders
3x windriders

Masque:
Inriams Spectre
Shadowseer ML2
3x troupe
3x skyweavers
3x skyweavers
1x Voidweaver

I love the aesthetic of the wraithblades, and I figure they will be a good bodyguard for Eldrad and the Shadowseer, but I never see them, ever. In isolation they seem like a poor mans lychguard, which to me isn't a bad thing, but then add in two psykers that can buff them to heck and a dedicated transport that has upgrade options galore and they start to look pretty stronk. Would this be as powerful as im building it up in my head? (Bear in mind my two current armies have 0 psychic in them, so I have very little exposure to that phase as a whole) I am also not going full scatterlaser, just 1 per squad.

On the harlies side, how do you equip the troupes? There is so many weapon options its a little overwhelming My gut tells me to go for the kisses as fishing for 6's isnt as reliable as one guaranteed S6 AP2 hit per guy. Are the skyweavers worth upgrading fully? It seems by doing so you enable them to be both shooty and CC.

Sorry for the wall of text, and thanks in advance

In my Troupes of 8, I have:
4 disruptors on Players
3 caresses on Players
4 embraces on Players
Master has caress and shuriken pistol.

So 4 caresses and 4 embraces total, with 4 disruptors distrubted evenly.

That's 237pts.

I don't like the kisses because I'd rather have 4 chances (on the charge) of AP2 per model than one potentially miss-able AP2 attack.
Consider the mathhammer here against T4. (I'm going to always round down.)
10 charging models with caresses get 40 attacks, resulting in 26 hits, 6 of which will wound automatically at AP2 with no roll needed. Then you have 20 other hits, 10 of which will wound.
So we've got 6 AP2 wounds and 10 AP- wounds.
10 charging models with kisses get 40 attacks, but 10 of these have to be set aside for the Kiss attack. 10 kisses will hit 6 times and wound 5 times. 30 more attacks will hit 20 times and wound 10 times.
So we've got 5 AP2 wounds and 10 AP- wounds.

Caresses are slightly better in this case. Against vehicles, the math is: Caresses get 6 glances against any AV, while Kisses get 6 chances to pen the AV (so 3HP against AV10, and less against AV11-12), and cannot hurt AV13.
That means that a Caress unit could kill a Knight in one go, while a Kiss unit couldn't hurt it at all (except for the single Haywire grenade that MIGHT hit).
Against anything that's T5 or better, caresses are also the better choice. I'd much rather have auto-wounds than a roll to wound. The more times you roll dice, the more chances you have at failure.

So the math shows that, contrary to your gut, fishing for auto-wounds is a better and more TAC choice than one S6 hit. It's less obvious on T4, but as the toughness increases the Caress becomes more and more desirable.
T6 math: Caresses get 6 AP2 wounds, while Kisses get only 3.
T8 math: Caresses get 6 AP2 wounds, while Kisses get 0-1.


The embraces help against hordes--Nids, Tau, Orks, Guard, etc. 4 embraces average 8 S6 I10 hits, will will give 7 saves to most infantry.

wow! thanks mate, would never have guessed that. Mathhammer comes in with the logic again. Would never have guessed that. Thanks!

I don't mean to hijack the thread, but I was wondering what the optimal loadout for 5 harlies+shadow seer in a starweaver is? As I have been struggling with building my harlie loadouts too.

I've been thinking about this some more...
The math I used assumed that I needed 3s to hit in CC.

Against units with WS5 or better (so needing 4s to hit), the Caresses would still be getting 6 AP2 wounds, while the Kisses would fall off further.

Against Invisible units, the Caresses WOULD STILL be getting 6 AP2 wounds, while the Kisses would get just one hit, and then have to roll wounds.

Yeah, it's really just amazing how much better auto-wounds are.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Gummy, it depends on your points. Why are you taking so few in a unit? (So they can fit in the Weaver?)
I'd have 3 caresses and two embraces, and maybe skip the disruptors to save points.


Also Gummy, PM me! I play at the Boulder GW store! I'll be there this Sunday