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Any thought on improving this? My main problem is mobility, but Mindveil confers a 3d6 move to the 30 zombies (joined by the HQs).
8 warp charges, aiming at invisibility.

I wonder what I could cut to bring in a Renegade Knight...

Thank you for your feedbacks!


Combined arm detachment (Siege of Vraks)
(WL) Command squad (command net vox, lascanon) and Primaris-rogue Witch (Covenant of Nurgle, Lv2, powerfist) 145
15 zombies 45
15 zombies 45
30 zombies 90
3 Rapier laser destroyers with training, three extra crew 79
3 Rapier laser destroyers with training, three extra crew 79
3 Rapier laser destroyers with training, three extra crew 79

Combined arm detachment (Alpha Legion)
1 sorcier Lv3 (VoLW, force axe and Mindveil) 140
1 sorcier Lv3 (VoLW, force axe) 110
10 cultists (infiltrate) 50
10 cultists (infiltrate) 50
Void shield generator 100

Purge detachment (Siege of Vraks)
Command squad (command net vox, lascanon) and Arch-Demagogue (Covenant of Khorne, powerfist) 95
3 spawns 55
3 spawns 55
3 spawns 55
3 spawns 55
2x2 griffons, dozer blade 160
3 wyverns with heavy bolters 165
Void shield generator 100
3 thudds, two extra crewmen 96

Have you considered a Thousand Sons allied detachment with the astral grimoire? But of MoT tax, but you get jump zombies.

Although the astral grimoire confers a more "stable" move (always 12"), it forces me to make dangerous terrain tests. But the big difference is that Mindveil basically gives an automatic Hit and Run, which is a bit OP... Just for that, Mindveil is far superior in my opinion (and the average move distance on 3d6 is 10", ignoring all difficult terrain, so it's decent). It's true, though, that the astral grimoire works on units other than the bearer's, which would be good to move forward many zombie units.
Then, there is the TS tax : cultists are more expensive and lose Infltrate (Alpha Legion). Infiltrating/outflanking obj. sec. cultists is almost not a tax : it's simply good. Most of all, the sorcerors have to "waste" a power in the Tzeentch discipline, which is average and inferior to Telepathy, "Librarius" or Geomortis.

Looks pretty good as always! i'm not entirely convinced that the void shields are needed in vraks renegades due to how tough the regular renegades are. Why primaris rogue witch over ordnance tyrant btw?

One thing I had considered post traitor legions was to use a death guard cyclopia cabal heading up a bunch of 30-man renegade infantry squads using the master of the horde rule. The sorcerors can provide relentless to any lascannons/autocannons along for the ride while summoning stuff and making the enemy shoot itself

The mindveil looks fun, but I'm not sure it's worth a whole CAD to get... If you went Ordnance tyrant, you could run two Renegade CADs, still fit in your gunz and drop the alpha legion down to an allied detachment? And use the saved points for more guns/zombies or crowbar in a knight?

Haha I was thinking about both grimoire And mindveil.. you have two sorcerers. And upp the zombies to 50 man..

Haha I was thinking about both grimoire And mindveil.. you have two sorcerers. And upp the zombies to 50 man..

This sounds fun.

Also, why do your sorcerors not have spell familiars? They're pretty awesome bits of kit!

I agree with the above points.

I would also worry about Champion of Chaos messing up your Sorcs. Neither have Bikes for toughness or TDA/Sigil for saves. If they get in a challenge, which they have to do, they're likely to get slapped down instantly. Even if the non-Mindveil one goes down first, there's still only one combat left for the other. I do agree that Astral Grimoire isn't as useful, but it -is- more likely to be on a durable model. Personally, I would just try to find some points to make the non-Mindveil Sorc tougher so he can tank challenges while everyone else does work. (Maybe go Mark of Nurgle and Palanquin for +1 T and +2 W? Dunno if the lost power to Nurgle Discipline would be bad for you as most of their powers are decent.)

Thanks every one, good advice from everyone!

In general, I want Mindveil for mobility. My main problem is mobility I think.
I played a Cabal before and I found the sorcerers very useful. Invisibility is game breaking, even on a squad of spawns. That's why I now play a CAD (2 sorcerers) and the Primaris-rogue Witch (total of 8 warp charges). When I play a CAD and a Purge detachment of Renegades, I feel like the Ordnance tyrant (30pts) is not that useful (7 heavy choice slots is often enough).
That being said, I always think about deleting the psykers altogether, but in the end I think they add a lot. What do you think?

You are right, Elroniel, about the Champion of chaos rule. For the moment I have managed to avoid enemy units that would take advantage of it, but it's a fragile combo. The non-Mindveil Sorc could be death guard (fnp) and on a mount, it would help.

Captyn_Bob

Haha I was thinking about both grimoire And mindveil.. you have two sorcerers.

Oh sorry! Yeah, it would be very good and about the same cost (15+10+the price of the relic). 2 allied detachments of the same faction is legit, I guess, but I haven't thought about it.

DoomMouse

death guard cyclopia cabal

I'm not sure to understand you, since the cyclopia cabal is a black legion formation.

Now that you suggest summoning... I was thinking about the Herald anarchic formation. Tz heralds on disk with good relics that summon everywhere pink horrors and hide with turbo-boost move. The point investment seems pretty low to me for all the tactical advantages you get!
And yes, maybe 2 vsg is not necessary in this army :/

As for the Knight, I gave it more thought and I'm not sure it's very good. 325pts is not that much, but then 4-5 attacks, with half of them missing to hit, is not really good. Stomp attacks are okay if you get 3 stomps, but even then only the result #6 is good (f6 ap4 hits pale in comparison of our artillery). I lean toward a Warhound Titan (730pts) for its 4 sD 5''blasts at 96''.

 RenegadeKorps wrote:
DoomMouse

death guard cyclopia cabal

I'm not sure to understand you, since the cyclopia cabal is a black legion formation.

This seems to be something being misunderstood by a lot of people because it was reprinted in Traitor Legions. You're right, it's a Black Legion-only formation.

I'm not sure to understand you, since the cyclopia cabal is a black legion formation.

Oh is it exclusive to them? Apologies if so. I was assuming the traitor legions worked similarly to chapter tactics for space marines. Admittedly I don't own the relevant books... So much for that little thought experiment then!

That being said, I always think about deleting the psykers altogether, but in the end I think they add a lot. What do you think?

I've had a similar thoughts myself. Invis is great when you get it, but it's by no means guaranteed with 6 rolls. At the last tournament I played against a chaos death star with 15 mastery levels that threw all of them at invis and didn't get it... I've had similar hit-and-miss luck with my librarius conclave allied to my guard horde list. I think that with R+H you have the power to spam incredibly durable troops/artillery to the point where invis doesn't really matter.

Summoning, on the other hand, I think could be extremely useful. Dropping an extra daemonette unit or two into the mid-backfield of the enemy makes up for some of the lower mobility of R+H, and adds to the sheer amount of bodies the enemy has to chew through.

I'm not entirely sure why you're running two sorcerors tbh - they aren't very efficient warp charge carriers compared with blue horrors/heralds anarchic, and you could get the mindveil with just one.

I was thinking about the Herald anarchic formation

This has me interested too. Something along these lines allied to a R+H list

Tzeentch pandemonium detachment - 531pts

Lorestealer host

Blue scribes 81pts
11 blue horrors 55pts
11 blue horrors 55pts
11 blue horrors 55pts
11 blue horrors 55pts

Heralds anarchic
herald with 2 mastery levels and paradox 95pts
herald 45pts
herald 45pts
herald 45pts

Provides 18 warp charges (for casting AND denying), plus a random free spell (I'd use the scribes to have a 1/6 chance of a greater daemon/screamer squad per turn on the malefic table). The horrors each have a herald attached and they can deploy normally or deep strike as needed per opponent. If they deep strike, the unit would try and summon a daemonette squad immediately in most cases.

I think they synergise quite well with R+H as they give you dice for denying opponent's invis (which is important for our blast weapons) and can summon rending melee infantry into the backfield to help tie up riptides/stormsurges. Plus they're another horde component with a 4+ invul that would be a pain to remove (particularly with brimstones)

As for the Knight, I gave it more thought and I'm not sure it's very good

yeah I think I agree tbh. Hard to justify the amount of earthshakers/zombies/RLDs that could be bought for the same prices as the knight. Knights have good offensive output, but I'd say they're point-for-point less tough than the better R+H units.

Yeah, I will buy blue horrors I think, but will play 3 units instead with one more herald, two disks. (Your list has 17wc I think, since the Blue scribes are not psykers).

MINI BATTLE REPORT AGAINST TAU
Mission: 5 relics on the central line, 1 point per relic at the beginning of your turn. And table quarters at the end of the game (2pts each).
He had a riptide wing (5 riptides), a stormsurge, a buffmander with missile crisis, 3 tetras.
I played the exact same list as above. I got Invisibilty and Infiltrate 3 units as my warlord trait
I won 19-0. He had nothing left after the fourth turn except the SS. He had nothing to stop the Mindveiled zombies. Power axes and power fists killed a lot of Riptides! But in the end, Invisibility won me the game, though I might have win without it.

Ah yeah my mistake. I think I counted the paradox herald as being ML3 by accident.

Nice one - that's a pretty grim list to pull off a win against! That mindveil relic looks very interesting.

Wish I'd rolled invis in the last game I had against riptides. before I'd not appreciated their power to shred hordes with SMSs that fire 16 shots each when they hailfire!

Oh god, those 16 sms shots, I know! Our saving grace is fnp 4+ !


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They go through my spawns like paper :(