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Hi, I got some nice outrider bikes that I am using for my command squad, but they've done very poorly in the last few battles.
Although they killed the D-weapon demon prince then another summoned demon prince in one game, they are dying really fast to shooting. I've been failing their 3+ with unlucky rolls and can't rely on the FNP. I had them loaded up with Apothecary, Champion, Storm Shields, Grav Guns, and Power Axes. I took off the grav guns and 3 storm shields to save some points, so them dying wasn't quite as painful.

I don't even know if I can actually take all that since they only have 2 arms? Does it say anywhere that a storm shield takes up a model's hand? So i modeled them steering the bikes with one hand, with a storm shield on their wrist, and a power axe in the other hand, with the grav guns attached to the back of the bike. Is this much wargear per model allowed? Also, can the apothecary take weapons and such in his hands, as his Narthecium looks like it can't really hold anything.

Anyway, I figured to lower point costs, I should either go shooty or assaulty with them. I decided to go assaulty and stick with the power axes and gave the apothecary and the Champ storm shields, and that I could jink if I need invul saves. Well, I faced a GK player who used a Callidus Assassin to AP2 flame them, so I put back on all 5 storm shields in the next game . I'm still torn about the grav guns too since they are rare and they have relentless. Any thoughts?

I think you can have grav gun, power weapon, and storm shield on them, as the rules for storm shield doesn't replace a weapon, so I think you can have them all.

However I don't suggest youto do so. Just Storm shield and gravgun is good enough, if you have your CM smashbane running with them and do the combat role. Imho, in competitive sense, this biker commamd squad are 1, being a mobile platform for gravguns, and 2, being ablative wounds for the smashbane while offering FnP bonus, which increase the enemy firepower needed to kill your man by 1.5 times to what they usually need.

I think the latest FAQ prohibits the apothecary from taking upgrades.

The best bet is running them for shooting. 4xgrav guns. A SS or two is nice if you don’t want to jink all the time. I’d not bother with axes. While a nastly little unit, you need points for the rest of your list.

The only thing you can do to make them tougher is to have a HQ in the unit. Either a beefy chapter master to tank wounds, or a librarian for psychic buffs. Or both.

A general rule of thumb I use; Don't try and do two things with one unit when you can do two things with two units. A 4x Grav Command Squad with an Apothecary and nothing else costs 200 points.

Taking all of that, plus the shields and axes, ups the cost to a whopping 300 points. For that much, you're halfway to another barebones squad.

The real problem is, you'll rarely want to charge what you just shot, because a Command Squad is not a substitute for an actual Melee squad - If the opponent is a real threat (Say, TWC) then you don't want to charge it in the first place, but if they aren't and you just wanted to tie them up, (Say, a Command Squad,) then you're better off just charging with stock melee options.

All in all, strip down, save your points, take moar stuff.

Thanks everyone for the replies, I think you guys are right. I like how the models look with the axes but I'm gonna switch to the grav guns.

Neophyte2012 wrote:
if you have your CM smashbane running with them and do the combat role.

I don't know what CM smashbane means? Are you suggesting I take an HQ in the squad?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
http://www.belloflostsouls.net/2016/06/breaking-new-40k-space-marine-faqs.html

Looks like this faq says Vanguard Veterans can take 2 pistols


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Nevelon wrote:
I think the latest FAQ prohibits the apothecary from taking upgrades.

I just checked it here http://www.belloflostsouls.net/2016/06/breaking-new-40k-space-marine-faqs.html
says you can upgrade the apothecary as a veteran with gear, and also upgrade him to apothecary.

CM Smashbane (or, alternatively Smashf*****) Is a chapter master on a bike with artificer armor andthe shield eternal. Ideally Iron Hands, as they get FNP and access to the Gorgon’s chain, which is another relic that makes you hard to kill. And some sort of beatstick, probably a TH.

You end up with a T5 (from bike) 2+/3++ 4W guy with FNP, base 5+ from the command squad, better for IH. He can eat a TON of pain before dieing, so works really well to tank wounds for a squad. And beat things to death.

I think there are more recent FAQs then those links. Just went official a few days ago.

http://www.blacklibrary.com/faqs-and-errata.html

Hilarity ensues when you also add Librarian Conclave on bikes and roll the power that grants rerolls to saves, and run it in Fist of Medusa Strike force. Smashbane with rerollable 2+3++ and I think 3+ FNP is nuts. I've tried it once, took a Riptide wing (3) and Stormsurge shooting to kill one regular dude.

Also, the most recent official faq states apothecary can't have any gear. Draft doesn't count anymore.

2+ FNP on Smash himself.

thanks, I will try to look sometime but the link on the gw site is broken

You're right about the recent faq, neither the Apothecary nor the Champion can take wargear, so I was thinking either

5 Command squad bikers with Grav Guns + Storm Shield

or

4 Command Squad bikers with Grav Guns + Storm Shield
1 Apothecary

Do you guys think the apothecary is worth it?
I'm *Pissed* that the champ is now pretty much worthless cause he can't take a storm shield, and I like the model I built
I have one extra bike that I was gonna build for a chaplain, maybe I'll make the leftover bike the 5th grav gunner and keep the champ model

Although the Medusa strike force rules sound very good, I am all Ultramarines, I don't like mixing chapters just for special rules, I would only do it if I collected both armies. If I go with a librarian conclave I will probably go with Terminator Armor, we can't get 2+ on bikes afaik.

 valen2258 wrote:
You're right about the recent faq, neither the Apothecary nor the Champion can take wargear, so I was thinking either

5 Command squad bikers with Grav Guns + Storm Shield

or

4 Command Squad bikers with Grav Guns + Storm Shield
1 Apothecary

Do you guys think the apothecary is worth it?
I'm *Pissed* that the champ is now pretty much worthless cause he can't take a storm shield, and I like the model I built
I have one extra bike that I was gonna build for a chaplain, maybe I'll make the leftover bike the 5th grav gunner and keep the champ model

Although the Medusa strike force rules sound very good, I am all Ultramarines, I don't like mixing chapters just for special rules, I would only do it if I collected both armies. If I go with a librarian conclave I will probably go with Terminator Armor, we can't get 2+ on bikes afaik.

If you're going Iron Hands, especially Iron Hands in a Medusa, always go with the Apothecary.
In your case, though... I'd probably take a 5th grav gun. Getting that 5+ FNP is nice, especially on T5 models, but getting an extra shot (When you're also re-rolling 1s to hit most of the time thanks to doctrines,) is totes worth it.

actually an extra 3 shots