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Made in gb
Fresh-Faced New User




https://s23.postimg.org/kx2ncixyz/decals1.jpg

Can anyone help explain why these decals are almost entirely transparent apart from a few specific areas? (The first shield on the left being the most prominent example of the patchy appearance)

It's been a long time since I've used any decals so it's most likely something I've done wrong - My process so far has been:
-Paint the shields
-Apply vallejos brush on gloss varnish
-Soak the decals in water and slide onto the varnished surface

Is there anything else I'm missing?
   
Made in us
Rampaging Furioso Blood Angel Dreadnought





Boston, MA

I know folks get really defensive about thier techniques, but what works for me.

Gloss, apply decal with a decal setter (testors, vallejo, or microset / microsol), gloss again entire area, then matte varnish.

I prefer microsol / microset but I find the second gloss step, while often unnecessary, helps both seal and help with the issue you're having.

Please check out my photo blog: http://atticwars40k.blogspot.com/ 
   
Made in au
Grizzled Space Wolves Great Wolf





Looking at those pictures, I'd say the decals are just really thin. The areas where they do look opaque is probably because there's an air or water bubble. You can see how the lighter portion of the decal is right on the transition from red to blue, to me that says you probably have a slight ridge between the red and the blue which is causing a bubble to form. You could probably get rid of it by working the decal with a cotton bud to squeeze out the air/water and then using an application of micro sol (though it might be difficult on decals that are already set in place).

Yellow decals over darker colours often have a transparency issue and as far as I'm aware there's no real way to stop it, other than putting the decal down and using it as a guide to paint over it.

As for general decal application, I apply a gloss varnish, use several applications of micro sol once the decal is applied (google tutorials on how to use it) and then finish it off with a satin varnish.

There's lots of tutorials out there on applying decals, sometimes it's good just to read and watch a bunch of them so you can learn what's going to work best for you.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=axgf8NNRh7M

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=chCLz7xnnZQ

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2017/01/26 13:49:29


 
   
Made in gb
Fresh-Faced New User




Thanks a million for the advice guys - I've put in an order for the microsol + microset products today!

AllSeeingSkink wrote:
Looking at those pictures, I'd say the decals are just really thin. The areas where they do look opaque is probably because there's an air or water bubble. You can see how the lighter portion of the decal is right on the transition from red to blue, to me that says you probably have a slight ridge between the red and the blue which is causing a bubble to form. You could probably get rid of it by working the decal with a cotton bud to squeeze out the air/water and then using an application of micro sol (though it might be difficult on decals that are already set in place).

Yellow decals over darker colours often have a transparency issue and as far as I'm aware there's no real way to stop it, other than putting the decal down and using it as a guide to paint over it.


I've looked at the shields very closely at an extreme side-on angle and I can see you're totally correct with everything you've said. It's definitely caused by the ridge between the red and blue sides of the shield. I'm going to try your suggestions for removing the pockets of air on the existing decals - if I'm not able to fix these, is there a good option to remove the decals without damaging too much of the paint underneath?
Also, for future decals is there anything apart from the microsol I can use to avoid this from happening again? Perhaps some added layers of varnish to even out the ridge between the two colours?

Thanks again for taking the time to help I really appreciate it

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/01/31 21:46:04


 
   
Made in gb
Alluring Mounted Daemonette




Soviet UK

Are they old decals as the quality won't be as good and they can fade a bit

For mother Soviet scotland oh and I like orcs  
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut




Nottingham, UK

That's almost certainly air trapped under the decal (sometimes known as silvering). The trick to avoid it is having a smooth surface - avoid thick paint (brushstrokes don't help - thin your paint), and gloss the surface and allow to dry fully before applying the decal.

With thin decals over strong colours (light colours over dark) you're always going to see through it a bit, but if there's air under there, you'll see that first.

 
   
Made in us
Ship's Officer





Dallas, TX

Easy fix for existing problem, use xacto knife to puncture through existing air pocket, shake up and apply a layer of GW lahmian medium and dry evenly. Make sure the medium gets under the decal.

As far as doing decals in the future, gloss varnish on desired surface, let dry and apply decal, let dry and apply Microsol decal softener, especially good on curved surfaces like marine pads, let dry and soft the decal for 20-30 minutes, another coat if necessary; let dry 15-20 min, shake up and apply lahmian medium. If you don't let micro sol dry completely before applying the lahmian medium, you get blotchy effect around the decal.
   
Made in au
Grizzled Space Wolves Great Wolf





COBALT wrote:
Thanks a million for the advice guys - I've put in an order for the microsol + microset products today!

AllSeeingSkink wrote:
Looking at those pictures, I'd say the decals are just really thin. The areas where they do look opaque is probably because there's an air or water bubble. You can see how the lighter portion of the decal is right on the transition from red to blue, to me that says you probably have a slight ridge between the red and the blue which is causing a bubble to form. You could probably get rid of it by working the decal with a cotton bud to squeeze out the air/water and then using an application of micro sol (though it might be difficult on decals that are already set in place).

Yellow decals over darker colours often have a transparency issue and as far as I'm aware there's no real way to stop it, other than putting the decal down and using it as a guide to paint over it.


I've looked at the shields very closely at an extreme side-on angle and I can see you're totally correct with everything you've said. It's definitely caused by the ridge between the red and blue sides of the shield. I'm going to try your suggestions for removing the pockets of air on the existing decals - if I'm not able to fix these, is there a good option to remove the decals without damaging too much of the paint underneath?
Also, for future decals is there anything apart from the microsol I can use to avoid this from happening again? Perhaps some added layers of varnish to even out the ridge between the two colours?

Thanks again for taking the time to help I really appreciate it


That 1st video I linked at 9:30 shows how he rolls (not pulls) a cotton tip across the decal to work out any bubbles that might have formed underneath. He does it after the microset has dried off so that you don't accidentally pull on the decal.

For the existing decals, you can try just piercing them with a pin or the tip of a fresh sharp knife. That'll give somewhere for the bubble to escape, you may need to apply some microset so you can work the decal a little bit. If the bubble isn't settling down, then try and apply some microsol but DO NOT attempt to manipulate the decal while the microsol is on it, the microsol softens the decal and it becomes very easy to damage, just let the microsol do its thing and hope that the bubble goes away. You can do multiple applications of microsol, waiting for the previous application to dry before applying the next.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/02/01 06:13:38


 
   
Made in us
Lone Wolf Sentinel Pilot





Los Angeles, CA, USA

Some people say microsol and microset are just varying strengths of vinegar. Do yourself a favor and just buy a bottle of each. They are very inexpensive and those two bottles will last for the rest of your life.
   
Made in au
Grizzled Space Wolves Great Wolf





 Todosi wrote:
Some people say microsol and microset are just varying strengths of vinegar. Do yourself a favor and just buy a bottle of each. They are very inexpensive and those two bottles will last for the rest of your life.
Vinegar is a weak low % acetic acid. One of the main components in microset is acetic acid, I don't know what percentage, but you can smell it. Microsol is nothing like vinegar though, and that's the more important one.
   
 
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