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So, I've started reading Know No Fear, which seems based on the premise that Guilliman knows literally nothing about the events of Istvaan. In the time between Know No Fear and Istvaan III, the Eisenstein made it to Terra, Dorn prepared the single most stupid battle plan in the history of the Imperium and issured orders to 7 Legions which then participated in the Dropsite Massacre. *THEN* the Word Bearers made the trip from Istvaan V to Calth, and the Ultramarines *still* have received no word of whats going on in the rest of the Imperium.

Apparently, the Ultramarines conduct spy work work about as well as Angron teaches meditation techniques. Is it possible that a large portion of Guilliman's distaste for Alpharius and the Alpha Legion is from jealousy? Is there ever evidence of this in the numerous HH books I have yet to read?

The only real opinion I've seen from Guilliman on Alpharius is actually of distaste. Guilliman saw Alpharius' methods as counter to what the Astartes were aiming for. Whilst effective, they rendered the population useless for colonisation, causing too much damage to the infrastructure that Guilliman prided on for his Legion.

As for not finding out about Istvaan, warpstorms could easily have negated communication, and any survivors didn't head straight to Ultramar to warn them. It's much like the situation with Sanguinus and his Blood Angels. They were relegated to the sidelines and set aside to be destroyed there. Neither of Horus' gambits worked out as well as he'd like.

I doubt the Ultramarines had spies, mainly because they didn't need to know. When one of their men began think about how to defeat Space Marines, they were censured. Why would Guilliman need spies?

 Sgt_Smudge wrote:

As for not finding out about Istvaan, warpstorms could easily have negated communication, and any survivors didn't head straight to Ultramar to warn them. It's much like the situation with Sanguinus and his Blood Angels. They were relegated to the sidelines and set aside to be destroyed there. Neither of Horus' gambits worked out as well as he'd like.

The Eisenstein made it back to Terra, word went to the 7 Legions, Istvaan V occurred, and *then* the Word Bearers made the trip to Calth. We have word reaching Terra, the response reaching Instvaan, and the WD reaching Calth, one after the other, and Rowboat still had no idea what was going on.

 Sgt_Smudge wrote:
The only real opinion I've seen from Guilliman on Alpharius is actually of distaste. Guilliman saw Alpharius' methods as counter to what the Astartes were aiming for. Whilst effective, they rendered the population useless for colonisation, causing too much damage to the infrastructure that Guilliman prided on for his Legion.

As for not finding out about Istvaan, warpstorms could easily have negated communication, and any survivors didn't head straight to Ultramar to warn them. It's much like the situation with Sanguinus and his Blood Angels. They were relegated to the sidelines and set aside to be destroyed there. Neither of Horus' gambits worked out as well as he'd like.

I doubt the Ultramarines had spies, mainly because they didn't need to know. When one of their men began think about how to defeat Space Marines, they were censured. Why would Guilliman need spies?

This sums it up pretty well for me, just throw in Horus doing whatever he can to try and prevent word of the rebellion from spreading to the Ultramarines and I'm happy to explain the lack of knowledge away at that.

What you don't know is that prior to Isstvan, Guilliman was at Saturn mustering the most far-flung of expedition fleets as well as acquiring the newest vessels from Sol's socks. He left to return to Ultramar just a few weeks before the Eisenstein arrived. The trip from Sol to Ultramar was normally a long one, but because of the intensifying warp storms and Guilliman's classic, "better safe than sorry" approach, they took a much more winding path that left them out of contact for many months. The exact amount of time isn't known but given that Horus issued the Word Bearer-Ultramarine muster in 005.M31 and the Word Bearers didn't arrive at Calth until mid-007.M31, it's most likely at least an 18 month journey.

Source: Horus Heresy 5: Tempest.

 EmpNortonII wrote:

 Sgt_Smudge wrote:

As for not finding out about Istvaan, warpstorms could easily have negated communication, and any survivors didn't head straight to Ultramar to warn them. It's much like the situation with Sanguinus and his Blood Angels. They were relegated to the sidelines and set aside to be destroyed there. Neither of Horus' gambits worked out as well as he'd like.

The Eisenstein made it back to Terra, word went to the 7 Legions, Istvaan V occurred, and *then* the Word Bearers made the trip to Calth. We have word reaching Terra, the response reaching Instvaan, and the WD reaching Calth, one after the other, and Rowboat still had no idea what was going on.

The only reason word reached Terra was because Garro sought Terra out. It was carried not via astropath, but by person, so it could only have reached Terra.

Dorn couldn't contact Guilliman, we presume, because of Warpstorms and jareddm's explanation, so only those Legions hit Istvaan. Guilliman didn't even know about Horus moving toward Istvann when he was still "loyal". After Istvaan, there were no survivors who passed on the message to Ultramar, and Warpstorms presumably blocked contact between Terra and Ultramar. The Word Bearers, being allied with Chaos, were not impeded by Warpstorms.