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Hey guys,

So as you know, I'm usually a tank guard army guy (Cadian armored company), and while it can be successful, it usually falls pretty quickly once infantry start getting too close. I already have an Imperial Knight Paladin with me but it's been sort of hit and miss. To be fair, it might work better with a Knight Gallant.

My question is how do people usually run an effective Guard army? Is Guard (on its own) considered effective? Would it be worth taking on allies of some kind?

I've been using blobs with tanks, like I have around 50 or so dudes with a priest, but tbh, I guess I'm wondering if it's enough to be competitive? I haven't had the most wins tbh with this format.

Maybe I'm missing something in terms of tactics?

In general, is Guard considered really competitive?

Yea on of the things I don't really do is move around much in my matches. I put my tanks hull down behind an Aegis line and shoot. It's worked sometimes but in at least the last two matches I played against re-rollable jink Raven wing bikers and speeders, it's been a bit tough. Maybe it's just who I played?

I like the vanquishers, those things can really kill armor when they hit. I don't have a ton of artillery, I do have a manticore and a wyvern, but that's it really.

I do sometimes also run a vendetta and a Valkyrie for more firepower, instead of my knight.

So Guard tanks just aren't considered superb these days? Shame really, it's a great looking model, and pretty heavy armored. I guess there's just no superb way to keep them protected from melee guys beyond a point.

So I'm hearing mixed things. I hear more artillery and I heard a couple say more tanks. I have my infantry blob already, with a priest. And it works pretty well.

I'd be more than open to hearing good Guard allies as well, especially allies that would mix well with a tank list.

Jancoran wrote:Here is the list I use (which as you can see can quickly and easily be switched to being purely Astra Militarum though it is stronger THIS way). Ill post my actual Astra Militarum list in a bit.

There is literally about 48 points separating the allied detachment from the main one and Astra Militarum can take the Storm Troopers as an elites choice.

• Militarum Tempestus Combined Arms Detachment

125pts 5 Tempestus Command (4 Volley Guns)
80pts Taurox Prime (Auto Cannons, Battle Cannon)

125pts 5 Tempestus Command (4 Volleyguns)
80pts Taurox Prime (Auto Cannons, Battle Cannon)

126pts 8 Scions (2 meltaguns)
80pts Taurox Prime (Auto Cannons, Battle Cannon)

126pts 8 Scions (2 meltaguns)
80pts Taurox Prime (Auto Cannons, Battle Cannon)

126pts 8 Scions (2 meltaguns)

948pts

Astra Militarum Allied Detachment
80pts Company Command Squad (4 Flamers)

75pts Primaris Psyker (Level 2, Force Staff)
75pts Primaris Psyker (Level 2, Force Staff)
50pts Primaris Psyker (Level 1, Force Staff)

25pts Ministorum Priest
25pts Ministorum Priest
25pts Ministorum Priest

160pts 2 Hydra Flakk batteries (both with Hunter Killer Missiles)

355pts 40 Imperial Guardsman (4x power Axes, 4 LasCannons, 3 Meltabombs)

30pts 5 man Platoon Command

900pts

Interesting, so you're staying away from armor overall, opting instead to use transports, heavy weapons teams, and meltas. There's not even a ton of artillery in your list, which I find very surprising tbh.

Useless Sidekick wrote:Have you had a look in the imperial armour book. We can get manticore platforms for cheap. 2 squads of three platforms are giving you 6 7" blasts with lascannon stats a turn for four turns?

I've seen it, and I absolutely love my Manticore. That thing is really powerful when it hits a large blob of stuff. It can definitely really put a dent in things.

I see, so you go for the highly mobile version of the blob to secure objectives and at the same time have the ability to kill most things pretty quickly, with the use of orders, but you do so by remaining mobile. I can see how this can work, with a lot of really careful planning.

I feel that the main thing the Wyvern has going for it is how cheap it is in point costs and it does put out a good amount of damage, especially with shred and ignores cover. I like my Manticore, just haven't run it recently tbh. I currently have no Basilisks, so I should probably get them.

Well it's unfortunate I'll have to abandon my tanks to make my army more competitive. Should I basically get rid of all of my tanks, or keep some? Or do I keep the armored company formation that I currently run but add in more artillery somewhere?

Should I keep my Knight Paladin, or is it just too many points for one unit?

And also, do people feel that Imperial fliers are any good?

I know that we've been discussing this for some time, but I'm finding it fairly interesting to discuss the merits and demerits of the army.

How have your Sentinels worked out? You have them in your list, so I'm curious, since I've heard people recommend them o me before.

Alrighty guys, so it seems that this discussion continued quite a bit.

I'll add in some points:

I've never personally liked Commissars, as I generally prefer using the Ministorum Priests, but then again, I mostly use my infantry to absorb deep strikers.

Interestingly enough, while I had previously loved my Aegis Line with camo netting on my tanks, these days I don't use it as much. It did do its job well but it really limited my maneuverability and as a result I was losing out on objectives.

I played a tournament yesterday at the local club, and didn't do too badly (won two games out of three), although my total score probably wasn't amazing. Here's my list:

Astra Militarum (1750/1850pt.) 1750 tank division with multiple detachments
http://hq-builder.com/shared/156815


@Primary Detachment [ 1 ]

'Emperor's Fist' Armoured Company
Astra Militarum;

Knight Commander Pask (425pt.)
> 1x - Command Leman Russ Punisher (175pt.); Searchlight; Smoke launchers; Punisher gatling cannon; Heavy bolter (x3); Camo netting;
> 1x - Leman Russ Vanquisher (180pt.); Searchlight; Smoke launchers; Vanquisher battle cannon; Lascannon; Multimelta (x2); Camo netting;
Leman Russ Squadron (185pt.)
> 1x - Leman Russ Demolisher (185pt.); Searchlight; Smoke launchers; Demolisher siege cannon; Heavy bolter; Camo netting;
Leman Russ Squadron (135pt.)
> 1x - Leman Russ Eradicator (135pt.); Searchlight; Smoke launchers; Eradicator nova cannon; Heavy flamer; Camo netting;
Leman Russ Squadron (180pt.)
> 1x - Leman Russ Vanquisher (180pt.); Searchlight; Smoke launchers; Vanquisher battle cannon; Lascannon; Multimelta (x2); Camo netting;
Enginseer (45pt.) Power armour; Laspistol; Power axe; Frag grenades; Krak grenades; Servo-arm; Melta bombs;
@Secondary Detachment [ 2 ]

Astra Militarum (Combined arms detachment)
Astra Militarum;

@HQ [ 2 ]

5x - Company Command Squad (60pt.)
> 1x - Company Commander ; Refractor field; Frag grenades; Close combat weapon; Laspistol; Flak armour;
> 4x - Veteran ; Frag grenades; Lasgun; Flak armour;


Ministorum Priest (25pt.) Flak armour; Frag grenades; Close combat weapon; Rosarius; Laspistol;

@Troops [ 2 ]

Infantry Platoon (220pt.)
# Platoon Command Squad (30pt.)
> 1x - Platoon Commander ; Flak armour; Frag grenades; Close combat weapon; Laspistol;
> 4x - Guardsman ; Flak armour; Frag grenades; Lasgun;
# 2x - Infantry Squad (50pt.)
> 1x - Sergeant ; Flak armour; Frag grenades; Close combat weapon; Laspistol;
> 9x - Guardsman ; Frag grenades; Flak armour; Lasgun;
# Conscripts (90pt.)
> 30x - Conscript ; Frag grenades; Flak armour; Lasgun;


10x - Veterans (125pt.)
> 1x - Veteran Sergeant ; Frag grenades; Close combat weapon; Laspistol; Flak armour;
> 9x - Veteran ; Frag grenades; Lasgun; Flak armour;
> 1x - Chimera (65pt.); Searchlight; Smoke launchers; Heavy bolter; Multi-laser;


Oathsworn detachment

@Lords of War [ 1 ]

Knight Paladin (375pt.) Heavy stubber (x2); Rapid-fire battle cannon; Ion shield; Reaper chainsword;

Statistics:
* Models: 79
* Units: 14

@Created by Head Quarters - online roster builder

After I got murdered in my first game, I decided to play a bit differently. First, I decided to play a more aggressive game. I kept my Vanquishers in the backfield while I pushed aggressively with my Knight and other three tanks. I also used my infantry more aggressively too, cause 30 lasguns (the conscripts), with the order First Rank Fire, Second Rank Fire, and rapid fire, I can get easily a total of 90 shots. It's still not a super competitive list, but it can run against some things. I won the last two matches, with small objective point margins and larger margins in terms of things killed. I didn't use my usual Aegis Line, for the same reason I said before. I ended up going for mobility instead of a static gunline.

The Knight, in my first match, died before I could use it. This was my own fault to be fair. I could've easily pushed a bit more aggressively. The second match I ended up decimating things with it, but didn't lose it. I was playing Tyranids. The last match, I was playing Chaos, and ended up losing the Knight only after it destroyed lots of things.

Opinions from people on this?

I'm thinking of replacing the Knight with more tanks, but I do like the capabilities of the Knight.

That is one of the more stupid things I've seen, cause it really guts the formation. Punisher Pask is what adds the punch to the formation.