Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

In a normal game on a 6x4 table, is there any real reason to take the Earthshaker over the Medusa now-a-days? Being that Renegades are already getting a discount due to lower BS that artillery doesn't really care about, I can't really see any good reasons for the extra range of the Earthshaker. Seems to me like most of the time I can place Medusa's in a good enough place to capitalize on their shorter range without issue. (Also, Breacher Shells, mentioned below for more range)

Secondly, if going with Medusa's, as I've done previously, are Breacher Shells a "must buy" option? I find even with 3 Rapiers it helps to have Medusa's with those small blast armorbane shots to finish things off. And the extra 12" in range is nice, too.

I can't think of any reason to take the medusa. for an almost 50% price increase and the loss of range and the Barrage rule (which is huge) you only get +1Str & +1AP. That is not worth it.

Also never take breachers shells. For the price of 1 breacher shell medusa you could have bought another 3 rapier batteries

 CrownAxe wrote:
I can't think of any reason to take the medusa. for an almost 50% price increase and the loss of range and the Barrage rule (which is huge) you only get +1Str & +1AP. That is not worth it.

Also never take breachers shells. For the price of 1 breacher shell medusa you could have bought another 3 rapier batteries

Hmm, loss of Barrage is huge. For whatever reason, I was of the mindset that they had Barrage. That changes things a bit, though I guess only when the table has a decent amount of terrain (not often in my Meta).

Edit: I will say that going from Str 9 to Str 10 is quite a big deal as T5 is much more common, and T5 with multi wounds it common, as well.

Barrage is much more then shooting things you can't see, it also lets you allocate wounds from the center of the blast to snipe key models and hit side armor on vehicles. Plus since barrage basically ignores intervening terrain for cover it means vehicles almost never get cover saves against barrage

The only beneft to the medusa is ID'ing T5 but I hardly think that justifies the 50% price increase especially after losing so many advantages of the Earthsakers

This is definitely no contest if you are runing the Ordnance Tyrant as well

I would personally go for a medusa. The difference between str 9 ap3 ordnance and str 10 ap1 armourbane is pretty big.

Str 10 means the difference of wounding on 2's vs wraithknights and other T8 GMC's. It means the difference between counting as ID against Plaguemarines, space marine bikers, and a plethora of other things that are toughness 5, which by the way, means they don't get to take a FNP save either.

AP1 armorbane means it will have roughly a 1/3 chance of getting an explodes result. Did your enemy bring a Spartan? Well they can kiss it goodbye, armored ceramite won't save them. It also means TEQ's will crap their pants.

Even if you don't take the bastion breacher shells, you're still slinging demolisher cannon shots around at a further distance than one could fire.

As an additional note, however. If you're running an emperor's wrath artillery battery, the basilisk is hands down better.

 chrispy1991 wrote:
running an emperor's wrath artillery battery

^Bringing your filthy loyalist formations into a renegade thread.

On a more serious note it really depends what kind of people you play: against tank/walker armies and elite armies that spam 2+ e.g. GK, the Medusa shines at wiping things from the board but for heavy infantry, low armour and 3+ or less spam then a battery of Earthshakers sat behind a large bit of cover is great for wiping gunlines and armies that rely on cover without being targetted yourself.

Medusa with Bastion Breacher shells hands down better option than Earthshaker.

I have both in heavy field artillery form and with the deny cover orders the Medusa is worth its weight in gold. Earthshakers are very useful, but i'd take a medusa over an earthshaker every time.

i'm not a fan of the bastion breacher shells. If they have the right targets then they are brutal, but they tend to scatter for me and i've gotten frustrated by the small blast on them.

medusa guns still have ordinance so its a pretty good bet that they'll pen what they shoot at.

war wrote:
I have both in heavy field artillery form and with the deny cover orders the Medusa is worth its weight in gold.

OP is asking about R&H so no deny cover orders.

 mrhappyface wrote:

war wrote:
I have both in heavy field artillery form and with the deny cover orders the Medusa is worth its weight in gold.

OP is asking about R&H so no deny cover orders.

Ah, so he is. I still wouldn't discount the S10 shots. Many a biker/wraith/wolf has been brought low by being doubled out.

Dirty heretics...

war wrote:

Dirty heretics...

Get outta here with your rotting corpse Emperor!

war wrote:
I have both in heavy field artillery form and with the deny cover orders the Medusa is worth its weight in gold. Earthshakers are very useful, but i'd take a medusa over an earthshaker every time.

i'm not a fan of the bastion breacher shells. If they have the right targets then they are brutal, but they tend to scatter for me and i've gotten frustrated by the small blast on them.

medusa guns still have ordinance so its a pretty good bet that they'll pen what they shoot at.

Ill second this, 90% of the time your opponent is going to be inside 36" as long as you set yourself up in the center of the map (and hopefully with plenty of zombie bubble wrapping). Your Earthshakers are going to have to fire direct most of the time because of their minimum range so you might as well go with a direct weapon anyways and put it behind an Aegis or under a Void Shield. That Str 10 AP 2 armourbane is pretty much going to guarantee a vehicle dead once a turn if you have a squad of 2 artillery carriages. And dont forget that str10 ap1 will work wonders kill ridiculous stuff like Death Guard and Daemon Princes

You still get all the benefits of barrage while direct firing

Quick YMDC question, If you take breacher shells, is it all you can fire? It doesn't say you are upgrading to breacher shells, but that you can take them. Would that just be having 2 types of ammo?

If you can fire either or, having a medusa around could be good, if you are stuck with just the breacher shells, small blast stinks pretty bad.

 gwarsh41 wrote:
Quick YMDC question, If you take breacher shells, is it all you can fire? It doesn't say you are upgrading to breacher shells, but that you can take them. Would that just be having 2 types of ammo?

If you can fire either or, having a medusa around could be good, if you are stuck with just the breacher shells, small blast stinks pretty bad.

If you read the entry for breacher shells, it says that a medusa with the breacher shell upgrade fires with that profile. So that is all you can fire

I used them both at a tournament recently. I think they both have their roll. Earthshakers to use their range to strike the enemy backfield and medusas to handle AP2 and S10 instant death needs.

I'd never use the bastion breacher shells though. Standard medusas are already pretty good against vehicles, and losing the large blast is pretty massive.

I'd personally run around 2 earthshakers for every medusa, depending on how much heavy artillery i wanted

Thanks for the opinions, insight and experience, folks.

I don't know if I've changed my mind on being Medusa heavy for my personal list, but I could see bringing a few Earthshakers to give them a shot. A prevalence of T5 multi wound models and TEQ models make the Medusa better than normal where I play, so I think that coupled maybe with a Cabal fishing for Earthly Anathema should handle things nicely.

I think where earthshakers really shine though, is apoc games-where the godlike range suddenly matters.

However, even in general games, the cheapness where renegades can spam earthshakers (not basilisks, the artillery unit) makes them valuable.

I remember I made a mock list some time ago just for kicks, it featured about 10 earthshakers and almost 200 meatshield infantry and zombies to block enemies forever from getting to them.
I should try to recreate it, then borrow some models to proxy play it as it sounds frustratingly fun

 BoomWolf wrote:
I think where earthshakers really shine though, is apoc games-where the godlike range suddenly matters.

However, even in general games, the cheapness where renegades can spam earthshakers (not basilisks, the artillery unit) makes them valuable.

I remember I made a mock list some time ago just for kicks, it featured about 10 earthshakers and almost 200 meatshield infantry and zombies to block enemies forever from getting to them.
I should try to recreate it, then borrow some models to proxy play it as it sounds frustratingly fun

I have 9 earthshaker proxies, a popular one is some ww2 toy that is slightly larger than the FW model. My list includes all 9, around 100 zombies, 9 rapier laser destroyers, 4 quad mortars, 18 spawn and 2 wyverns. I played it for a while at my LGS and it built a reputation, all sorts of standard cheeses fought it, and none could do much against it.
Nasty players mix an unending host with their purge for infinite meat shield.

That style of list is why R&H pops up in tournaments.

Don't Earthshakers have a minimum range? That's something I'd be worried about.

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
Don't Earthshakers have a minimum range? That's something I'd be worried about.

I believe that refers to minimum range for indirect fire, it can still fire directly below that. But don't quote mebon that.

That is correct, very few guns cannot fire within minimum range. Earthshakers can only direct fire within minimum, so they must have line of sight within 24".

That said, if you are within 24" and you don't have LoS-there are probably quite a few zombies parked there, and a few other earthshakers that are placed elsewhere and CAN target that spot if need be.

Not to be indecisive, but why not both?

Typically I go 4 earthshakers and 3 Medusas

Earthshakers prevent them from also hiding artillery AND make it difficult to hold backfield objectives. Combo with allied deepstrike and you have a decent shot at line breaker and holding the objective in their deployment

Medusas tare up anything threatening my line, the Str10 AP2 is a godsend for heretics as lots of the heavy hitting CC units cant take more than two barrages if the scatters right