Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

I love rough riders, and either way will build some up for casual games, but are there ever any cases where they don't sort of suck? I think the biggest problem is that they're guard's only real melee unit outside of bullgryn (ogryn being bad) but those are much too slow to keep up with them (and still not amazing). Is there any reasonable way to use them that they don't get mowed down by any decent shooting before they get into combat? After all they're just a guardsman statline.

I know I obviously want to keep them out of LoS as much as possible, but are there any other strategies? I'm thinking running them along behind my melta chimera, but then I run into the issue that I can only run small squads of them or they won't be completely covered. Two chimeras next to each other seems a waste as I generally want them going after separate targets outside of knights. I do like to run black knights behind chimeras, but that's a three man squad, not 5+.

What's the best loadout? I'm nervous about plasma, as they will murder themselves and that's a large investment on any unit that doesn't have carapace. A flamer or two perhaps? And I'll have 8 of them, is that a reasonable squad size (98 points with 2 flamers)? Or just run the basic 5 with a flamer or two (60-65).

What targets are they worth aiming at? The obvious choice seems marines, but are they worth throwing at tac squads? Hold them back to protect against DS? Try to maneuver them to hit stuff in their backfield, or just aim for stuff near the middle of the table? Ever worth throwing at a dedicated melee unit, such as TWC, wulfen, vanguard vets, etc? I assume nothing with a 2+ or high initiative. In any way worth it hoping for 6s against a wraithknight? In any way against tau, I just expect them to die to overwatch since they'll be my only charging squad unless I also run black knights.

I just really want to run these guys, but they seem sort of crap for the cost. 5 T3 5+ wounds is will just fall over, and it's only 11 attacks on the charge at WS3.

 kingbobbito wrote:
I love rough riders, and either way will build some up for casual games, but are there ever any cases where they don't sort of suck? I think the biggest problem is that they're guard's only real melee unit outside of bullgryn (ogryn being bad) but those are much too slow to keep up with them (and still not amazing). Is there any reasonable way to use them that they don't get mowed down by any decent shooting before they get into combat? After all they're just a guardsman statline.

Short answer: no. They die quickly.

 kingbobbito wrote:
I know I obviously want to keep them out of LoS as much as possible, but are there any other strategies? I'm thinking running them along behind my melta chimera, but then I run into the issue that I can only run small squads of them or they won't be completely covered. Two chimeras next to each other seems a waste as I generally want them going after separate targets outside of knights. I do like to run black knights behind chimeras, but that's a three man squad, not 5+.

I have seen them taken along with an armored column, where they come up behind a set of tanks. This just puts the tanks in close range for melta guns. The Rough Riders may get to charge, but there are usually downsides to that.

 kingbobbito wrote:
What's the best loadout? I'm nervous about plasma, as they will murder themselves and that's a large investment on any unit that doesn't have carapace. A flamer or two perhaps? And I'll have 8 of them, is that a reasonable squad size (98 points with 2 flamers)? Or just run the basic 5 with a flamer or two (60-65).

My advice would be to keep them as simple as possible and focus on close combat.

 kingbobbito wrote:
What targets are they worth aiming at? The obvious choice seems marines, but are they worth throwing at tac squads? Hold them back to protect against DS? Try to maneuver them to hit stuff in their backfield, or just aim for stuff near the middle of the table? Ever worth throwing at a dedicated melee unit, such as TWC, wulfen, vanguard vets, etc? I assume nothing with a 2+ or high initiative. In any way worth it hoping for 6s against a wraithknight? In any way against tau, I just expect them to die to overwatch since they'll be my only charging squad unless I also run black knights.

When I see them, they are usually charging a CSM squad or some other form of infantry. They don't have the melee power to really tie up another squad for several turns. I've never seen them used to take out things in the backfield, but I don't see them used that often.

 kingbobbito wrote:
I just really want to run these guys, but they seem sort of crap for the cost. 5 T3 5+ wounds is will just fall over, and it's only 11 attacks on the charge at WS3.

I agree with your analysis.

a bit of a niche army and don't know how well it would work, but shield them with hell hounds and variants

The best way to make them not suck is to play them as DKoK death riders. You get WS4, A2 base, W2, a 4+ armor save, and 6+ FNP. That makes them much tougher and much less likely to get wiped off the table by random bolter fire. And DKoK have a special "death riders as troops" FOC in IA:Vraks, so it's very easy to take them as a supporting force alongside your normal IG.

I've used rough riders with some surprisingly good results.

What i did was run a min squad with a meltabomb on a sarge.

They generate some good amount of s5 ap3 attacks and can even scare off some vehicles. I've only run them in a couple games cause i don't play guards very often and generally end up with just MORE CONSCRIPTS. The last time i actually tried rough riders, it went like this:

A min squad hiding behind a ruin scoring a point. Iron hand bike comsquad shows up and desperately wants to get to my arti but it has to mulch through conscripts first. It charges the conscripts, kills a lot of them and stays locked in combat. Rough riders roll towards them, charge and kill an apothecary, wound a librarian and kill a stormshield dude - instantly paying off. They still loose combat cause of conscript's deaths but score me a vp for killing a character. Fail ld and fall back regrouping on a point.

another time they murderised some droppoded marines and killed some eldar jetbikers right before that - but it resulted in rough riders being wiped out at ini 5. Overwatch did hurt there but the amount of damage they managed to deal was enough to make it matter.

There was a game where they did nothing - just got shot, failed ld and ran away. But generally, when you don't overinvest, they're a nice counter-charge unit. Taking into consideration the amount of 3+ armor floating around. Rough riders do need a place to hide cause they aren't cheap on a per-model basis. So, it also causes some problems. There's no good in spamming them. 1-2 min squads is probably the best option.

Oh, i also remember running the Chingis Han dude before the new codex squatted him - you know, the one on a metal horse. With 6-th ed rage being +2 attacks on the charge instead of the old "rush towards the closest enemy" he was hilariously powerful. A squad of horses murderised a kitted out sm comsquad thrice their cost. And was still fine to proceed rolling around.

 Peregrine wrote:
The best way to make them not suck is to play them as DKoK death riders. You get WS4, A2 base, W2, a 4+ armor save, and 6+ FNP. That makes them much tougher and much less likely to get wiped off the table by random bolter fire. And DKoK have a special "death riders as troops" FOC in IA:Vraks, so it's very easy to take them as a supporting force alongside your normal IG.

I second this! Plus the alternate FOC you get from Vraks also turns one of them into a Company command squad and you have the option of making some platoon commanders regularly (keep in mind DKoK have different orders) it also gives you access to lots of fun things like elite slot Thudd Guns and Rapier Batteries as well as artillery carriages!