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Hi all,

How can you go wrong with this many assualt cannons?

HQ

Epistolary-Fear of the Darkness and Fury of the Ancients, terminator armor/154

4 Terminator command squad-furious charge, 2 assault cannons, homer/220

ELITES

Dread-pod, heavy flamer/145

Dread-pod, heavy flamer/145

TROOPS

5 Terminators-2 assault cannons, homer/270

5 Terminators-2 assault cannons, homer/270

5 Terminators-2 assault cannons,homer/270

5 Terminators-2 assault cannons,homer/270

The general idea is to drop everything in to limit the impact of the assault cannons' low range.  Aside from that, it's just rend rend rend.  I might like to get some pods in there though, as all of my squads are 5 men anyways.  Aside from the homers, are there ideas on how to get points for that?  I've got ~100 points to spare, so I'd need to come up with another 50, 20 of which come from the homers.  30 points that are expendable?  Possibly the furious charge?

cheers
 

Mauleed had posted a list that used mixed homers and pods. I'm not sold on the idea, but I suppose it's a possibility. The homer has to be on the table at the start of the turn, so if you get a reserve coming in of a pod and a teleporting squad, the teleporting squad could not take advantage of the homer the drop pod squad would be carrying that turn.

Statistically speaking, you're going to have half of your reserves coming in on that one turn. So lets assume you spent your 100 points on 3 drop pods and, say, a storm shield for your librarian. Lets remove the dreads from the equation for a second (figure one of them will drop in on turn 2 and the other one won't.) That leaves us with 5 terminator squads. No matter how you slice it, you've got a pretty even chance of having one squad without a pod coming down that turn. It can't take advantage of the homer. That leaves only one squad out of 5 that can. If it worth it? I'm not convinced.

On the other hand, you have 106 points left. Losing the homers actually nets you 25 points. So you could get in 4 pods and still have something like 10 or 11 to spare. Drop furious charge and a heavy flamer and you could get that 5th pod in. Personally I think your list would be a little too focused, as in lacking versatility. Still, assault cannons do bring a versatility all of their own.

Ezz

I posted an 1850 deathwing...Dakka toughguy style. It was decided that Tank Hunters was about the best thing for the dropping termies, and a librarian with fear, and one of the dreadnoughts was venerable with tank hunter. I'd also splurge for extra armor on the dreads.

Is the furious charge on the CMD squad for the Force Weapon on the Epistolary? I think you might get more use outta tank hunter (especially when shooting Armour 10 stuff with your SBs as they're assault weapons).

Just a thought.

100points can get you alot.

 

annoy your opponant-make one of the podding dreads venerable (it is deathwing afterall, the elite of the elite)

then use whats left over to give your squads tank hunter of furious charge as per your preference.

Furious charge won't buy you much, but tank hunters is great since otherwise you are Depending on Rending. 

Definitely Drop Pod the Command Squad.  In order to use Fear, you are going to want to get as close as possible to the center of your opponent's army. 

I prefer to have a Venerable TLL/ML Dread for major tank hunting duties and taking the long shots, but most folks seem to think that one twin-linked Str 10 and one Str 9 shot is not worth taking.  I have it take the first shot at whatever tank is alive so I can save my rending and storm bolter shots for squads.

 

 

Okay, again we get to spell this out.

1 LC is < 2 AC vs anything other than Monoliths.

"Depending" on rending is no different than "depending" on hitting with heavier weapons.
With 8 shots, you are more likely to get a rend than you are to hit with even a twin linked LC.

That tank hunting, TLLC + ML venerable dread costs alot more than the alternative. It is not that much more effective. Especially considering that it would be the only thing that could really be counted on to hurt a monolith.

However, that is the reason to take it, if you choose. Not because you don't want to "depend" on rending.

Furious charge won't buy you much, but tank hunters is great since otherwise you are Depending on Rending.

Actually, Furious Charge is excellent for a DW list. You have a list full of Terminators which can take tank hunters. But you have no way to get an initiative or strength boost for your HQ model other than furious charge. And lets not forget it works for the sgt, too. So for 7 1/2 points per model you can give those two models a bonus to both strength and initiative on the charge. Sounds like a good buy to me.

Ezz

More vitally, it makes the Librarian death on wheels to the big monsters that can eat whole squads of termies

Posted By The Happy Anarchist on 06/01/2006 1:04 PM
"Okay, again we get to spell this out.

1 LC is < 2 AC vs anything other than Monoliths."
--Obviously, but that is not what we are comparing...

"Depending" on rending is no different than "depending" on hitting with heavier weapons.
With 8 shots, you are more likely to get a rend than you are to hit with even a twin linked LC.

That tank hunting, TLLC + ML venerable dread costs alot more than the alternative. It is not that much more effective. Especially considering that it would be the only thing that could really be counted on to hurt a monolith.
--I was discussing firing order, not troop choices.  You've switched from 8 shots to 4 shots if you are now talking about the AC Dread rather than the 2AC Squad.  Math to follow...

However, that is the reason to take it, if you choose. Not because you don't want to "depend" on rending.

----------------------

It may not have been clear, but I wasn't saying the Dread is better than the 2AC squad at killing tanks, but I prefer to use it to free up the 3x Strom bolters in the squad for killing infantry.  I also greatly prefer the Ven-Shooty over the over the Basic Dread.

The Pod-Dread for 145 points gives you 2/3 Rends per turn at avg penetration of 13.  Odds of rending and then scoring a 14 on armor pen = .278

The double AC Squad for 255 points (288 in Pod) gives you 1 1/3 rends per turn with an average penetration of 14 if you take tankhunters (13 if you don't).  All this at 24" range.  Odds of rending and then scoring a 14 on armor pen .556 (.778 with Tank Hunters)

The Venerable Dread for 185 points (193 with smoke/armor) gives you .88 hits/turn that average 13.5 penetration and.66 hits/turn at 12.5 avg penetration.  All this at 48" range. The odds of getting a hit and armor pen roll of 14 are .44/turn on the TLL and .22 on the ML which is.56 successes/turn.

So after all this math I've realize that the Ven dread is actually equal to the 2AC squad for popping AV14 targets both having a ~56% success rate for a glance.  Tank hunter 2AC squads are quite uber, however, at 78%

This aside, there are the other factors including Points Cost, Survivability, Range, etc.  If you have the points, I still say upgrading a Dread to Ven TLL/ML is the way to go since for ~40 points you get double the success rate against heavy armor (and double the range) and free up squads for other duties.   

 

 

Posted By ezzeran on 06/01/2006 3:53 PM
Actually, Furious Charge is excellent for a DW list. You have a list full of Terminators which can take tank hunters. But you have no way to get an initiative or strength boost for your HQ model other than furious charge. And lets not forget it works for the sgt, too. So for 7 1/2 points per model you can give those two models a bonus to both strength and initiative on the charge. Sounds like a good buy to me.

Ezz

I stand corrected.  I never really get to charge with my command squad since everything is usually dead or running away due to fear.  But I can see how some battle would make this very useful.