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Made in gb
Been Around the Block



Shanghai, China

VladimirHerzog wrote:
Pomguo wrote:
I feel like it won’t be open-topped. I also feel like, given the recent example of the Manipulus, it will be overcosted and we may not see this fixed any time soon. And finally, given how the drill worked, I expect it won’t be able to transport Secutarii or Kataphrons.

But I am a fan of the data sheets or what we’ve seen of them. My only question now is the invuln save. 5++ like an Onager? 6++ like a chicken? Nothing at all like a drill? The latter would make it the first admech codex unit besides Servitors to not have any invuln, so I feel it wouldn’t be fluffy or fitting (and servitors should really have a 6++ Bionics save anyway, given they’re also half metal).


The manipulus' cost isnt far off from what it should be, he brings a lot of utility to any list. The drill has no problem transporting Secutariis.

I expect that once the datasheet is out, well see the missing rules.
Yeah, no idea why I brainfarted on the Secutarii. But kataphrons were explicitly banned so I feel like maybe that’s a fluff thing, they don’t want mantanks being carried in tanks.
   
Made in de
Paramount Plague Censer Bearer




Germany - Bodensee/Ravensburg area

The Disintegrator is a Heavy Support choice, which means it has to compete for a valuable slot with the extremely awesome and point-efficient Onager crab. And I seriously doubt it will be cheap enough pointswise to justify paying that insane $ price to get one to replace one of the three Crabs pretty much every Mechanicus player already has. Sure, having a mortar is nice, but if it's not point efficient at killing infantry, mortar squads or cheap objective sitters (because it sure as heck won't be killing any Basilisks and other artillery tanks with S6) then again the question becomes why you should take it over a Dunecrawler and a chunk of points you can use as a down-payment for a unit of Infiltrators to threaten and tie up the artillery and backliners (or Dragoons for a fast frontal charge, or a Drill), especially because Dunecrawlers benefit from being run together in a big group and are easy to get repaired by our plentiful repairmen HQs.

This is sad, because if it was a Fast Attack choice as anticipated it might have been a very worthwhile choice to further increase a lists firepower in addition to the 3 Crab pack everyone runs and another option to fill up slots for a brigade with something other than single Chickens (not an ideal or efficient choice for both Balistarii or Dragoons).

Fingers crossed that the transport will be reasonably priced (80-90 points max, considering its toughness), otherwise I'll just save the money instead of rewarding GW's obvious greed with that rather absurd price inflation.

EDIT: The mortar cannon also only has 36" range... which is pretty bad for a likely fragile counter-artillery unit that now has to get close to the enemy, possibly without a chance to use suitable terrain big enough to serve as its own LoS blocker.

This message was edited 7 times. Last update was at 2019/06/21 21:20:55


Dark it was, and dire of form
the beast that laid them low
Hrothgar's sharpened frost-forged blade
to deal a fatal blow
he stalked and hunted day and night
and came upon it's lair
With sword and shield Hrothgar fought
and earned the name of slayer


- The saga of Hrothgar the Beastslayer 
   
Made in us
Pewling Menial




Washington, DC

 Ragnar Blackmane wrote:
The Disintegrator is a Heavy Support choice, which means it has to compete for a valuable slot with the extremely awesome and point-efficient Onager crab. And I seriously doubt it will be cheap enough pointswise to justify paying that insane $ price to get one to replace one of the three Crabs pretty much every Mechanicus player already has. Sure, having a mortar is nice, but if it's not point efficient at killing infantry, mortar squads or cheap objective sitters (because it sure as heck won't be killing any Basilisks and other artillery tanks with S6) then again the question becomes why you should take it over a Dunecrawler and a chunk of points you can use as a down-payment for a unit of Infiltrators to threaten and tie up the artillery and backliners (or Dragoons for a fast frontal charge, or a Drill), especially because Dunecrawlers benefit from being run together in a big group and are easy to get repaired by our plentiful repairmen HQs.

This is sad, because if it was a Fast Attack choice as anticipated it might have been a very worthwhile choice to further increase a lists firepower in addition to the 3 Crab pack everyone runs and another option to fill up slots for a brigade with something other than single Chickens (not an ideal or efficient choice for both Balistarii or Dragoons).

Fingers crossed that the transport will be reasonably priced (80-90 points max, considering its toughness), otherwise I'll just save the money instead of rewarding GW's obvious greed with that rather absurd price inflation.

EDIT: The mortar cannon also only has 36" range... which is pretty bad for a likely fragile counter-artillery unit that now has to get close to the enemy, possibly without a chance to use suitable terrain big enough to serve as its own LoS blocker.


I think you are underestimating the strength of indirect fire, especially in ITC.

While Skitarri are not at Guardsmen level in efficiency, they are still a really really good troop option. Most of our anti-infantry however, does not have the best range. Against guard, I often find myself creeping my slow Skitarii up the field while they get picked off by mortars. The Scorpius gun is pretty much the perfect profile to kill mortars or even things like Hiveguard. If we can pick off the 2-3 rounds of free hidden indirect fire, our infantry can often out trade a lot of the other stuff out there. Indirect fire is HUGE.

Only disappointment is that with AP -1 they are not going to be as ideal vs our other big bane, strike and fade dark reapers.

#dontbeatony

3500+
(Raven Guard) 7000+
(Scions) 1500+ 
   
Made in us
Fresh-Faced New User




Remember the rule of 3 limits us to three Dunecrawlers. Its really easy to run two Battalions with AdMech, and you can run both three Dunecrawlers and some of these new guys for indirect or anti-tank firepower.
   
Made in pl
Sister Oh-So Repentia





 Ragnar Blackmane wrote:
The Disintegrator is a Heavy Support choice, which means it has to compete for a valuable slot with the extremely awesome and point-efficient Onager crab. And I seriously doubt it will be cheap enough pointswise to justify paying that insane $ price to get one to replace one of the three Crabs pretty much every Mechanicus player already has. Sure, having a mortar is nice, but if it's not point efficient at killing infantry, mortar squads or cheap objective sitters (because it sure as heck won't be killing any Basilisks and other artillery tanks with S6) then again the question becomes why you should take it over a Dunecrawler and a chunk of points you can use as a down-payment for a unit of Infiltrators to threaten and tie up the artillery and backliners (or Dragoons for a fast frontal charge, or a Drill), especially because Dunecrawlers benefit from being run together in a big group and are easy to get repaired by our plentiful repairmen HQs.

This is sad, because if it was a Fast Attack choice as anticipated it might have been a very worthwhile choice to further increase a lists firepower in addition to the 3 Crab pack everyone runs and another option to fill up slots for a brigade with something other than single Chickens (not an ideal or efficient choice for both Balistarii or Dragoons).

Fingers crossed that the transport will be reasonably priced (80-90 points max, considering its toughness), otherwise I'll just save the money instead of rewarding GW's obvious greed with that rather absurd price inflation.

This is only valid in >1000pts and even then not really since we have rule of 3 and onagers don't come in squadrons anymore. This range is short true, but also on durable and supper accurate platform that can counter -to hit shenanigans via datathetter or cawl. Guard can't really do that. It won't compete with onagers to much and even iff- i think 48" range cannon+missiles is the one to compete, as iAd take more reliable about of daka over d3 of neutron.

EDIT: The mortar cannon also only has 36" range... which is pretty bad for a likely fragile counter-artillery unit that now has to get close to the enemy, possibly without a chance to use suitable terrain big enough to serve as its own LoS blocker.



Its not counter artillery so don't compare it like that. You also are forgetting manipulus, making that actual range is 42"+12 of movement. Not guard artillery range but still god enough, more than most other artilleries. And would be only 3d3 shots i wouldn't be enough, but it also does have missiles, giving us some nice amounts of dakka. Last game i played on tournament I lost because i couldn't take down Big squad of grotesques that marched through the table( table terrain and deployment zones really fethed me up because it effectively created big wall that i couldn't shoot through.) would i had two of those it would change thing dramatically. If you are comparing it to basilisks it sure won't look good, because those thing are supposed to do different things.

I can see easily spearhead detachment manipulus+2 onagers(neutron & icarus) +2-3 new tanks. And it may replace in that combination support of balistari. Ad two battalions and you are home.


1. „Stab the shoty, shot the staby”
2. „Who bails, fails.”
3. „Act to win yourself and not for your opponent to lose.”
4. „If in dilemma between damage and durability, chose third- speed.”
5. „Focus fire.” 
   
Made in au
Blood Angel Terminator with Lightning Claws






Hello friends, I played a game today against DG with my AdMech+knight and completely wiped them, and I’m curious if the list is really good or if it was just luck/it was a bad matchup. Here are the lists (as much as I remember about the DG one).

AdMech:

Spoiler:

—-[Battalion]-—
HQ
- Cawl (Warlord)
- Dominus w/ Volkite Blaster and Macrostubber
TROOPS
- 3x Plasma Destroyers
- 10x Rangers w/ 2x Arquebusi
- 10x Rangers w/ 3x Plasma
- 10x Vanguard w/ 3x Arc Rifles
ELITE
- 10x Fulgurite Electro-priests
FAST ATTACK
- 3x Dragoons
HEAVY SUPPORT
- Onager w/ Neutron Laser

—-[Axiliary Super-heavy]-—
- Knight Valiant w/ 2x Siegebreaker Cannons (-1CP to make him a second warlord w/ the 4++ trait and relic that makes his flamer re-roll would rolls)

—-[Axiliary Super-heavy]-—
- Armiger Warglaive w/ Melta


Death Guard:

Spoiler:


—-[Battalion]-—
HQ
- Daemonprince w/ Wings and Talons
- Malignant Plague Caster
TROOPS
- 7x Plague marines w/ 2x Blight Launchers and champion w/ plasma and fist
- 7x Plague marines w/ 2x flails, champ w/ fist and plasma
- 15x pox walkers
- 10x pox walkers
ELITE
- 3x Deathshroud
FAST ATTACK
- 3x Chaos Spawn
- Bloat-drone w/ flamers
- Blight Hauler
HEAVY SUPPORT
- Plagueburst Crawler w/ entropy cannons
- Plagueburst Crawler w/ entropy cannons

—-[Auxiliary Super-heavy]-—
- Mortarion (Warlord)


The Valiant killed Morty, the 2 Crawlers and the hauler pretty much by himself, didn’t expect him to be that good haha.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/06/22 12:20:51


 
   
Made in gb
Regular Dakkanaut




You know the relic flamer is Imperial knights only, you can't combine it with strats like Knight of the Cog or Machine Spirit Resurgent?
   
Made in us
Quick-fingered Warlord Moderatus






U02dah4 wrote:
Theirs no way that tank will be 100ish its got a load of missiles aswell as its main gun 150-300 in GW pts darts

You're right, forgot about the missiles. Maybe 130ish then... which is perhaps optimistic?

VladimirHerzog wrote:
I'd like to remember people that the "open-topness" isnt confirmed yet, so keep that in mind when evaluating the model.

What im most excited about is the ability for more reliable T1 charges with a stygies transport. And the fact that the transport itself can easily soak up the overwatch for its payload, my fulgurites love this.

Another point is that they only mentionned that it can transport 10 INFANTRY, with no word about kataphrons. If they can emark, this means that we wont have to rely on terrain to protect kataphrons anymore.

Since we havnt seen any flyer base so far, i think its fair to assume it wont have one (i should look at the sprues to try and spot if it has a plug for one underneath), it not flying and being quite chunky means that once disembarked, we'll be able to cut off some line of sight to protect our smaller units (kataphrons, fulgurites are the interesting ones to me).

I'm scared to see the points costs, i feel like the tank version especially will be overcosted.

If it's open-topped as well, then you can also bring Secutarii for 10D3 non-LOS lasgun shots? Lol.

A capacity of 10 gives me less hope. That sounds like it was designed specifically for Skitarii. At best, Kataphrons will count as 3 models?

 Ragnar Blackmane wrote:
The Disintegrator is a Heavy Support choice, which means it has to compete for a valuable slot with the extremely awesome and point-efficient Onager crab. And I seriously doubt it will be cheap enough pointswise to justify paying that insane $ price to get one to replace one of the three Crabs pretty much every Mechanicus player already has. Sure, having a mortar is nice, but if it's not point efficient at killing infantry, mortar squads or cheap objective sitters (because it sure as heck won't be killing any Basilisks and other artillery tanks with S6) then again the question becomes why you should take it over a Dunecrawler and a chunk of points you can use as a down-payment for a unit of Infiltrators to threaten and tie up the artillery and backliners (or Dragoons for a fast frontal charge, or a Drill), especially because Dunecrawlers benefit from being run together in a big group and are easy to get repaired by our plentiful repairmen HQs.

This is sad, because if it was a Fast Attack choice as anticipated it might have been a very worthwhile choice to further increase a lists firepower in addition to the 3 Crab pack everyone runs and another option to fill up slots for a brigade with something other than single Chickens (not an ideal or efficient choice for both Balistarii or Dragoons).

Fingers crossed that the transport will be reasonably priced (80-90 points max, considering its toughness), otherwise I'll just save the money instead of rewarding GW's obvious greed with that rather absurd price inflation.

EDIT: The mortar cannon also only has 36" range... which is pretty bad for a likely fragile counter-artillery unit that now has to get close to the enemy, possibly without a chance to use suitable terrain big enough to serve as its own LoS blocker.

I wish it were a Fast Attack option as well.

The 36" range is not a huge problem because of movement and ignoring LOS. After all, most of our guns are 36" range; the tradeoff is power.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/06/23 01:07:32


 
   
Made in us
Nasty Nob on Warbike with Klaw





Nebraska, USA

Unless that tank is T8 i highly doubt it'll cost more than the dunecrawler by a significant amount.
Its weapons are inferior to the crawler, its just more mobile. Which is almost never a problem since the dunecrawler isnt exactly immobile, its just not super fast. The mortar weapon is the only main gun it has that piques my interest because that is unique and fills a role the crawler cannot do very well - hunt sneaky gitz using terrain to avoid getting shot, while avoiding anti-tank guns because it itself is out of sight.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/06/23 01:13:58


An ork with an idea tends to end with a bang.

Imgur Album: http://vineheart01.imgur.com
8000pts Big 'n Bad Orkz 
   
Made in au
Blood Angel Terminator with Lightning Claws






Tastyfish wrote:
You know the relic flamer is Imperial knights only, you can't combine it with strats like Knight of the Cog or Machine Spirit Resurgent?


Yeah I found this out just after posting this. He almost certainly wouldn't have done as well without it.
   
Made in de
Paramount Plague Censer Bearer




Germany - Bodensee/Ravensburg area

 Vineheart01 wrote:
Unless that tank is T8 i highly doubt it'll cost more than the dunecrawler by a significant amount.
Its weapons are inferior to the crawler, its just more mobile. Which is almost never a problem since the dunecrawler isnt exactly immobile, its just not super fast. The mortar weapon is the only main gun it has that piques my interest because that is unique and fills a role the crawler cannot do very well - hunt sneaky gitz using terrain to avoid getting shot, while avoiding anti-tank guns because it itself is out of sight.

We'll have to see, because even in 5th edition weapon balance and model and/or weapon point costs can be all over the place. I mean just compare a Neutron-Crab with a Tau Hammerhead with a railgun and what you have to pay for both choices, even though the Railgun is so much inferior to what our Onagers get.
Not even gonna mention the Manipulus (and how our justified expectations turned out).

In any case I would recommend to anyone to wait until the rules are out in the wild before putting the money for the Dunerider kit on the table, unless someone is dead set on getting it for model building purposes.

This message was edited 7 times. Last update was at 2019/06/23 02:05:19


Dark it was, and dire of form
the beast that laid them low
Hrothgar's sharpened frost-forged blade
to deal a fatal blow
he stalked and hunted day and night
and came upon it's lair
With sword and shield Hrothgar fought
and earned the name of slayer


- The saga of Hrothgar the Beastslayer 
   
Made in us
Quick-fingered Warlord Moderatus






Well, this is it for my GT later in July:
Spoiler:
Mars Battalion Detachment - 1305
Cybernetica Cohort (-1 CP)

HQ - 275
1x Belisarius Cawl - Warlord
1x Tech-Priest Manipulus - Transonic Cannon, Relic: Raiment of the Techno-Martyr

Troop - 270
3x Kataphron Breacher - 3x Heavy Arc Rifle, 3x Arc Claw
3x Kataphron Breacher - 3x Heavy Arc Rifle, 3x Arc Claw
3x Kataphron Breacher - 3x Heavy Arc Rifle, 3x Arc Claw

Heavy Support - 440
4x Kastelan Robot - 12x Heavy Phosphor Blaster

Fast Attack - 320
4x Ironstrider Ballistarii - 4x Twin Cognis Lascannon

Stygies VIII Battalion Detachment - 608

HQ - 60
1x Tech-Priest Enginseer
1x Tech-Priest Enginseer

Troop - 140
5x Skitarii Ranger - 5x Galvanic Rifle
5x Skitarii Ranger - 5x Galvanic Rifle
5x Skitarii Ranger - 5x Galvanic Rifle
5x Skitarii Ranger - 5x Galvanic Rifle

Fast Attack - 408
6x Sydonian Dragoon - 6x Taser Lance

Operative Requisition Sanctioned - 85 (-2 CP)

Total: 1998 points
10 CP

Basically my BAO list, except I swap the Knight and downgrade 2 Vanguard for Dragoon Bomb and Assassin.
   
Made in gr
Stalwart Tribune





Greece

 Suzuteo wrote:
Well, this is it for my GT later in July:
Spoiler:
Mars Battalion Detachment - 1305
Cybernetica Cohort (-1 CP)

HQ - 275
1x Belisarius Cawl - Warlord
1x Tech-Priest Manipulus - Transonic Cannon, Relic: Raiment of the Techno-Martyr

Troop - 270
3x Kataphron Breacher - 3x Heavy Arc Rifle, 3x Arc Claw
3x Kataphron Breacher - 3x Heavy Arc Rifle, 3x Arc Claw
3x Kataphron Breacher - 3x Heavy Arc Rifle, 3x Arc Claw

Heavy Support - 440
4x Kastelan Robot - 12x Heavy Phosphor Blaster

Fast Attack - 320
4x Ironstrider Ballistarii - 4x Twin Cognis Lascannon

Stygies VIII Battalion Detachment - 608

HQ - 60
1x Tech-Priest Enginseer
1x Tech-Priest Enginseer

Troop - 140
5x Skitarii Ranger - 5x Galvanic Rifle
5x Skitarii Ranger - 5x Galvanic Rifle
5x Skitarii Ranger - 5x Galvanic Rifle
5x Skitarii Ranger - 5x Galvanic Rifle

Fast Attack - 408
6x Sydonian Dragoon - 6x Taser Lance

Operative Requisition Sanctioned - 85 (-2 CP)

Total: 1998 points
10 CP

Basically my BAO list, except I swap the Knight and downgrade 2 Vanguard for Dragoon Bomb and Assassin.


I would definetly swap one breacher group making them destroyers. 90 points one group of ranger i dont take spamm groups beyond breachers. 35 points 1 Robot 110 points add at least 4 grav destroyers. Thats a minimum change for me personally i would add more like 4 more but i m not sure what to remove. some dragoons one balistarii i dont know but i would definetly add them and flamers/manipulus combo you ll need the extra guns. can be used same as robots and can buff robots as well. etc etc. why take 4 Robots whan you can add a destroyer group. also if you go that road i would make the 2 breacher groups 4-5 each works better than 3 man.

As for the assasin its a nice tool. but you need to get a lot of practice with them to be able to idintify their value. What i found best to use was supplement my list with the assasin.
Take snipers on some of your rangers and sniper assasin would make a combo.
Take dragoons with 2 melee assasins again a nice combo. you can use the horde killer one to clear chaff for dragoons to charge etc. So you need to build upon the plans . and in your list only snipers missing.

Why pay cybernetica cohort and manipulus??? both contribute in the same plan. And with destroyers you can save the cp. And you need them.

I would consider an outrider detachment spliting the dragoons 1-1-4 for various reason but mainly to get the battalion as mixed??? that would give you the extra deny cause cullexus really cant handle it and you would waste points no him. while graia deny can be valuable in solo .
+ you really could benefit from some lucius units make enginseers mars for healing etc etc you need options and you already can benefit from 1-1-4 dragoons in from of more fast units some extra screen some more options to cap obj etc.

Some thoughts to build upon especialy the splitting dragoon issue can help you in many cases if played correct. i know the drawback maybe some easy kill points or fisrt strikes but can be played to victory better than a group of 6. One fast att no deep strike etc hard to manage.

This message was edited 5 times. Last update was at 2019/06/23 08:58:28


 
   
Made in us
Snivelling Workbot




 Suzuteo wrote:
Well, this is it for my GT later in July:
Spoiler:
Mars Battalion Detachment - 1305
Cybernetica Cohort (-1 CP)

HQ - 275
1x Belisarius Cawl - Warlord
1x Tech-Priest Manipulus - Transonic Cannon, Relic: Raiment of the Techno-Martyr

Troop - 270
3x Kataphron Breacher - 3x Heavy Arc Rifle, 3x Arc Claw
3x Kataphron Breacher - 3x Heavy Arc Rifle, 3x Arc Claw
3x Kataphron Breacher - 3x Heavy Arc Rifle, 3x Arc Claw

Heavy Support - 440
4x Kastelan Robot - 12x Heavy Phosphor Blaster

Fast Attack - 320
4x Ironstrider Ballistarii - 4x Twin Cognis Lascannon

Stygies VIII Battalion Detachment - 608

HQ - 60
1x Tech-Priest Enginseer
1x Tech-Priest Enginseer

Troop - 140
5x Skitarii Ranger - 5x Galvanic Rifle
5x Skitarii Ranger - 5x Galvanic Rifle
5x Skitarii Ranger - 5x Galvanic Rifle
5x Skitarii Ranger - 5x Galvanic Rifle

Fast Attack - 408
6x Sydonian Dragoon - 6x Taser Lance

Operative Requisition Sanctioned - 85 (-2 CP)

Total: 1998 points
10 CP

Basically my BAO list, except I swap the Knight and downgrade 2 Vanguard for Dragoon Bomb and Assassin.


Have you considered taking a minimum sized Graia battalion for the strat and taking the Dragoons as an aux detachment? Even with the assassin, I'd imagine that without the knight you should have the CP to make that work.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/06/23 08:56:06


 
   
Made in nl
Blood Angel Terminator with Lightning Claws





The Netherlands

 Suzuteo wrote:
A capacity of 10 gives me less hope. That sounds like it was designed specifically for Skitarii. At best, Kataphrons will count as 3 models?


Well the original sketch does list '10x Skitarii or 5x Heavy Skitarii':
Spoiler:

   
Made in de
Implacable Skitarii





Spoiler:
 Redemption wrote:
 Suzuteo wrote:
A capacity of 10 gives me less hope. That sounds like it was designed specifically for Skitarii. At best, Kataphrons will count as 3 models?


Well the original sketch does list '10x Skitarii or 5x Heavy Skitarii':
[spoiler]
[/spoiler]

There are no heavy skitarii lol.
Either meaning sicarians, which arent really heavy and should take the same place as they are so spindly.
Or kataphrons, which arent really skitarii
   
Made in us
Quick-fingered Warlord Moderatus






I don't have any way to do 8-10 Breachers and a unit of Grav Destroyers. (I own 9 Plasma Destroyers and 9 magnetized Kataphrons that I use as Breachers.)

I can only take one Assassin. ITC rules.

I have been thinking of cutting Cohort Cybernetica, but I am unsure. I have never regretted spending that 2 CP for extremely powerful alpha shooting. I say 2 because I am usually either in range of many valuable targets or nothing. In most of my games, I have to move twice before I spend CP to go assault guns, root, Wrath, and make my points back. I almost always gain control over a large chunk of the board's real estate in the process. (This is the Cawl's Moving Castle gameplan.)

Anyhow, if I had to do your Kataphron-heavy style, I would cut the Las-striders and spare Rangers for Destroyers. 4 Dakkabots is the floor; once I drop below this, there's very poor odds for me one-shotting Daemon Primarchs.

It would look like this:
Spoiler:
Mars Battalion Detachment - 1339
Servitor Maniple (-1 CP)

HQ - 275
1x Belisarius Cawl - Warlord
1x Tech-Priest Manipulus - Transonic Cannon, Relic: Raiment of the Techno-Martyr

Troop - 624
4x Kataphron Breacher - 4x Heavy Arc Rifle, 4x Arc Claw
4x Kataphron Breacher - 4x Heavy Arc Rifle, 4x Arc Claw
4x Kataphron Destroyer - 4x Plasma Culverin, 4x Phosphor Blaster
4x Kataphron Destroyer - 4x Plasma Culverin, 4x Phosphor Blaster

Heavy Support - 440
4x Kastelan Robot - 12x Heavy Phosphor Blaster

Stygies VIII Battalion Detachment - 573

HQ - 60
1x Tech-Priest Enginseer
1x Tech-Priest Enginseer

Troop - 105
5x Skitarii Ranger - 5x Galvanic Rifle
5x Skitarii Ranger - 5x Galvanic Rifle
5x Skitarii Ranger - 5x Galvanic Rifle

Fast Attack - 408
6x Sydonian Dragoon - 6x Taser Lance

Operative Requisition Sanctioned - 85 (-2 CP)

Total: 1997 points
10 CP

Downsides to this is that the list has no easy way to down aircraft on turn one; 42"+6" range threat radius won't reach into both corners if you deploy centrally to minimize the impact of Eldar redeploy. It is also way more CP intensive; Elimination Volley and Noospheric Mindlock are much more expensive than Strafing Run and Doctrina, and it puts way more weight on the Destroyers, which in my opinion are less impactful than the Dakkabots.

Perhaps this can work if I can cut 2 Destroyers and a Dragoon for another Battalion, which is 5 CP and 165 points worth of filler units pretty much.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
the_Grak wrote:
Have you considered taking a minimum sized Graia battalion for the strat and taking the Dragoons as an aux detachment? Even with the assassin, I'd imagine that without the knight you should have the CP to make that work.

Yes, that was my original plan, but I need to reserve that 1 CP per turn (to be spent on the Graia stratagem) for the Assassin. So might as well go for Stygies. If I really need anti-Psyker, say against 1K Sons, I will bring in Culexus. Vindicare also can drop many squishier HQs in a single turn with the shoot twice headshots.

Here's me trying to squeeze that in:
Spoiler:
Mars Battalion Detachment - 1243
Servitor Maniple (-1 CP)

HQ - 275
1x Belisarius Cawl - Warlord
1x Tech-Priest Manipulus - Transonic Cannon, Relic: Raiment of the Techno-Martyr

Troop - 528
4x Kataphron Breacher - 4x Heavy Arc Rifle, 4x Arc Claw
4x Kataphron Breacher - 4x Heavy Arc Rifle, 4x Arc Claw
6x Kataphron Destroyer - 6x Plasma Culverin, 6x Phosphor Blaster

Heavy Support - 440
4x Kastelan Robot - 12x Heavy Phosphor Blaster

Graia Battalion Detachment - 165

HQ - 60
1x Tech-Priest Enginseer
1x Tech-Priest Enginseer

Troop - 105
5x Skitarii Ranger - 5x Galvanic Rifle
5x Skitarii Ranger - 5x Galvanic Rifle
5x Skitarii Ranger - 5x Galvanic Rifle

Stygies VIII Battalion Detachment - 505

HQ - 60
1x Tech-Priest Enginseer
1x Tech-Priest Enginseer

Troop - 105
5x Skitarii Ranger - 5x Galvanic Rifle
5x Skitarii Ranger - 5x Galvanic Rifle
5x Skitarii Ranger - 5x Galvanic Rifle

Fast Attack - 340
5x Sydonian Dragoon - 5x Taser Lance

Operative Requisition Sanctioned - 85 (-2 CP)

Total: 1998 points
14 CP

Not so sure. It tries to do a lot, and it has a massive number of dead points. Looking at the math, it packs a lot less oomph because Mars Destroyers actually aren't in the same league as Dakkabots against horde/heavies or Las-striders against aircraft.

This message was edited 6 times. Last update was at 2019/06/23 09:46:09


 
   
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Stalwart Tribune





Greece

Trying to win the Air craft list is a waste of time. Reach all corner edge will only make you loose the game not win it. You are ad mech planes want to come snipe your chars so you need to castle up and make them come to you. So you can benefit from the closer range . Cover up hide vs planes you want to go second and there is where defence comes into play. USe -2 to hit dragoons for screen as i said???

If you take a risk to shoot them again GRAVVVVVVVV destroyers shoot better. with Elimination Volley.
And you need to have more threats than one balistariii group.

3 balistarii should be enough as a threat same goes for Robots 3 can be a threat but not a must kill. same for dragoons.
I love 3 batt and thats is how i try it but in your case you can do it with 2 batt and outrider. The whole purpose is to identify and use the cp accordingly.
You need to remember when you pick a plane he will use -1-2 to hit on it. So you need to have more shooters. And without elimination volley and destroyers you got -2 shooters Robots and destroyers. thats why you use Grav Flamers. You cant go head on vs plane list. And that is only shooting

Without deny you will Autoloose. Robots evaporate in half turn without protection especially if you invest 440 points your Done.

I m just trying to tell you some pointers i dont believe its possible to win the plane list easy. Especially with out maybe 3 smahscaptains. And even then you need to lure the planes again close to cpatains etc etc. The plan remains for ad mech .Lure them then kill them .
Even if you play first that your enemy want either way. You wont have the impact to stop him extreme shooting. you need to play it smarter winning with shooting its a game of luck and most likely you will loose it pew pew vs.
thats why i dont take Dragoons their role is limited good cheap but limited and you got 6 and want to kill plane list ??? Sure they will go rush their ground forces but still a ruin their defence etc.
You cant have all. thats why i said split them maybe become screener fast obj capp take more sides etc. If an enemy pass their -2 to hit coming close for example with a plane their dead.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/06/23 10:01:12


 
   
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@Suzuteo: In regards to your last list, keep in mind you can't take 4 enginseers in Matched Play.
   
Made in gr
Stalwart Tribune





Greece

Maybe try a detachment all balistarii isstead of Dragoons ? and some priest for dfence?
   
Made in de
Enginseer with a Wrench






Don't take the Culexus against Chaos, it's a huge trap! He will just be hugged by Plaguebearers / Horrors / Tzaangors so you can't shoot them.
Also against eldar I don't like him, he is easy to play around imo.
   
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Greece

Yes deny is the key vs psych.
   
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@Yoda79
If I can't beat the aircraft list, then there is no point in me playing tourneys at all, as they are a gatekeeper army. Now, I've played them enough times to know that it's a tough matchup, but not impossible. Don't even know where to begin if my plan relies on Kataphrons. As you say, lure them, kill them. But Kataphrons don't do a good job luring.

Actually, I calculated that 4 is the minimum number of Ballistarii you need to kill on average dice. Eldar have to choose between killing the Cawl, Ballistarii, Dakkabots, or Dragoons/Knight. Any of these can kill a lot of bikes in response. My mistake my first game was not better protecting the Cawl; Skitarii inside for this matchup!

Yes, the Ballistarii pretty much ignore the -2 to hit though. For 1 CP and no additional requirements. That is why I love them. Even if they use a -1 to hit stratagem, the Las-striders can pick it up afterwards. (Note that Ballistarii can shoot down planes way faster than the planes can shoot down the Ballistarii, and only if there are ideal conditions.)

Eldar can't really ignore the Dragoons. They threaten the bikes. The aircraft are like a Distraction Carnifex. The bikes are what truly deal the damage. And Dragoons deployed forward with a Culexus make it hard to get close enough to Doom+Jinx without losing a ton of characters and bikes the next turn. Dragoons also can use Dunestriders to cross the map to block a plane from moving.

Let me think about how to get Graia in there. Easiest way is to spend 1 CP to make the Dragoons an Auxiliary detachment.

@lash92
I think that the value of the Culexus is to deny Smite for Chaos and to force Eldar to a certain area of the table. (Basically, deploy Culexus with some Dragoons, ready to countercharge.) What do you think about Vindicare though?

@the_Grak
Right, not that I would ever want to waste that many CP in the first place. I just realized that I would need a Dominus to use Noospheric Mindlock. Lol.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2019/06/23 15:06:12


 
   
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Home Base: Waconia, MN (Minneapolis)

The new tanks are going to be amazing. I'm dropping bots for them most likely and moving some stuff around. But flyers are inconsequential in an army running 3 tanks, 3 icarus crawlers, and 3 autocannon striders.

The new tanks solve so many issues. Assuming they're in the 150-165 range with the mortar.

Best Painted (2015 Adepticon 40k Champs)

They Shall Know Fear - Adepticon 40k TT Champion (2012 & 2013) & 40k TT Best Sport (2014), 40k TT Best Tactician (2015 & 2016) 
   
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Nebraska, USA

i was actually thinking about that since i just glued together my ironstriders as autocannons like 2 days before we found out the tank weapons. Initially i was thinking "damn it...thats the only gun they got i'd want too" but then i thought....

Thats an absolute gakton of long range flat 2 damage shots, good chunk of which is ignoring los.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/06/23 18:42:43


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[DCM]
Heroic Senior Officer





Murray, Kentucky

Not fought the current version of the eldar Doom planes much, do the Onagers reliably drop them? I always felt like my stupid neutrons did a better job than the Icarus did at getting through the planes armor saves.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Hulksmash wrote:
The new tanks are going to be amazing. I'm dropping bots for them most likely and moving some stuff around. But flyers are inconsequential in an army running 3 tanks, 3 icarus crawlers, and 3 autocannon striders.

The new tanks solve so many issues. Assuming they're in the 150-165 range with the mortar.

I'm not sure if I'd drop bots entirely. The tanks are awesome don't get me wrong but they fill very different niches. I feel like a bit of all 3, Onagers, tanks, and bots, will be the best bet. A big ol chunk of T7 wounds with nasty shooting

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/06/23 19:33:04


'I've played Guard for years, and the best piece of advice is to always utilize the Guard's best special rule: "we roll more dice than you" ' - stormleader

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@Hulksmash
Interesting. I think we have a bunch of options now. Not sure if Mortars + Icarus Crawlers + Auto-Striders is the best way about it. It seems to over-focus on light vehicles and flying units.

Besides, Dakkabots and Mortars complement one another. We used to run Guardsmen Mortars, Basilisks, and Wyverns before the ITC faction rules change. Dakkabots are great at converting CP to wounds on a variety of targets. Their weakness is their LOS. Mortars can apply a lot of pressure to enemies trying to avoid them, especially Eldar bikes, and they don't need CP. Dragoons complete the weapon triangle for mechanized AdMech by posing an assault threat.

So there are three ways to apply pressure. LOS, non-LOS, assault. If you want to go Stygies and be much more mobile, then maybe Las-striders, Mortars, Dragoons?

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2019/06/23 20:35:58


 
   
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Sagitarius with a Big F'in Gun





Energy cannon mortar has range of 48” in our apocalypse focus, which is the misprint though? Lol
   
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Quick-fingered Warlord Moderatus






From Apocalypse:


Man, I wish we had that rule instead of a selectively applied 6+ invulnerable save...

@Octovol
I think Apocalypse has different rules?

This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2019/06/23 22:55:52


 
   
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Sagitarius with a Big F'in Gun





 Suzuteo wrote:


@Octovol
I think Apocalypse has different rules?


It does, but range doesn't strike me as one that would need to vary between systems. The other weapon ranges didn't change.
   
 
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