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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2017/02/08 13:26:58
Subject: Astropath- inquisitorial henchman warband formation
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Longtime Dakkanaut
Glasgow
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The warband has a rule that the optional units may be taken and form a single unit with the mandatory unit of acolyte's
One of these options the astropath is an IC how does this work?
Part 1
1) As an IC it can be deployed in another unit?
2) It must be deployed in the unit but as an IC can subsequently leave?
3) It is part of the unit and may never leave as such should not be considered a separate unit for victory point's?
Part 2
What consitutes it's battlefield role and complicating matters if I buy a dedicated transport for my unit compriseing both HQ & Elite is the dedicated transport both HQ and Elite
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2017/02/08 15:10:14
Subject: Astropath- inquisitorial henchman warband formation
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Shunting Grey Knight Interceptor
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Can't quote the book right now, but IIRC many formations like this (Green Tide and Zagstruck's stormboy formation are two I am more familiar with) specifically say in the formation rules that the units and characters must be deployed as a single unit and they cannot leave. Unless of course all but the last IC dies; then it should be able to join another unit.
But I don't remember the C:IA book using this exact same wording. So unless specifically restricted, I would say the Astropath can leave. Same goes for Techpriest and Ministorum Priest.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2017/02/08 15:52:38
Subject: Astropath- inquisitorial henchman warband formation
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Longtime Dakkanaut
Glasgow
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The wording is:
These units must form a single unit with this formations unit of acolytes
No mention of deploy no mention of can't leave
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2017/02/08 21:35:22
Subject: Astropath- inquisitorial henchman warband formation
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Ragin' Ork Dreadnought
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U02dah4 wrote:The wording is:
These units must form a single unit with this formations unit of acolytes
No mention of deploy no mention of can't leave
They form a single unit. Period. That means that they act as a... Drum roll please... Single unit.
I'm not sure what else you want. The Astropath can't leave, because he's part of a single unit, rather than multiple attached units.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2017/02/08 21:51:04
Subject: Astropath- inquisitorial henchman warband formation
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Longtime Dakkanaut
Glasgow
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So does that mean that the transport is an elite hq
Also why does the Independent Character rule not apply
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2017/02/08 22:41:49
Subject: Astropath- inquisitorial henchman warband formation
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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It's an elite because the others are joining the unit of acolytes.
The Independent Character rule doesn't apply because we are told they form one unit, not one unit plus an attached independent character. There were no qualifiers about it being one single unit, and that notation about being a single unit would override the IC rule. The Inquistors don't have that restriction (and if you take a generic inquisitor of some flavor to bring another unit in, they aren't part of the acolyte unit either)
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2017/02/09 00:50:59
Subject: Astropath- inquisitorial henchman warband formation
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Decrepit Dakkanaut
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If the ic leaves, are they still one unit?
No
Hence you cannot leave, because you wild break a rule without explicit allowance to do so.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2017/02/09 03:29:04
Subject: Re:Astropath- inquisitorial henchman warband formation
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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I disagree. I think that the independent character rule still applies because it has notably different wording from formations like Green Tide or Seer Council. Those formations all include a prohibition on leaving the unit. This formation does not.
Consider for instance the Genestealer Cult Neophyte Calvalcade formation. The Neophytes must take a Chimera and deploy embarked in that Chimera. They don't lose the ability to disembark, just because it is part of the formation restriction that they must be embarked when deployed.
The Truth is this book was release incomplete. This formation was never finished because GW didn't care enough, and were in a hurry to push out Fall of Cadia. GW isn't terribly interested in finishing it after the fact, so it's hard to guess how it should work. But based on RAW, the Astropath doesn't lose IC, and doesn't lose it's battlefield role.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2017/02/09 04:54:06
Subject: Astropath- inquisitorial henchman warband formation
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Scarred Ultramarine Tyrannic War Veteran
Ankh Morpork
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If the requirement is that they form a single unit with no further restriction then there is no further restriction preventing the Astropath from leaving the unit during the course of the game.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2017/02/09 12:53:07
Subject: Astropath- inquisitorial henchman warband formation
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Ork-Hunting Inquisitorial Xenokiller
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Mr. Shine wrote:If the requirement is that they form a single unit with no further restriction then there is no further restriction preventing the Astropath from leaving the unit during the course of the game.
I'd agree with Mr Shine here... for a precendent, compare to the Cohort Cybernetica which says all models form one unit (despite the rules not allowing ICs to join with MCs) and then explicitly states that the Tech-Priest Dominus cannot leave the unit at any time.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2017/02/09 18:56:12
Subject: Astropath- inquisitorial henchman warband formation
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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Mr. Shine wrote:If the requirement is that they form a single unit with no further restriction then there is no further restriction preventing the Astropath from leaving the unit during the course of the game.
There's a difference between forming a single unit and starting the game as a single unit. They specify the former, not the latter.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2017/02/09 19:12:57
Subject: Astropath- inquisitorial henchman warband formation
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Not as Good as a Minion
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Mr. Shine wrote:If the requirement is that they form a single unit with no further restriction then there is no further restriction preventing the Astropath from leaving the unit during the course of the game.
It's actually closer to how the Techmarines work now. They are ICs which can purchase more non- IC's in to their unit.
If we accept the FAQ's ruling regarding Techmarines being able to leave their units and joining another, then it would apply to the Astropath's IC ability to leave units they have joined.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2017/02/09 19:48:22
Subject: Astropath- inquisitorial henchman warband formation
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Longtime Dakkanaut
Glasgow
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Silentz wrote: Mr. Shine wrote:If the requirement is that they form a single unit with no further restriction then there is no further restriction preventing the Astropath from leaving the unit during the course of the game.
I'd agree with Mr Shine here... for a precendent, compare to the Cohort Cybernetica which says all models form one unit (despite the rules not allowing ICs to join with MCs) and then explicitly states that the Tech-Priest Dominus cannot leave the unit at any time.
Except your precedent is not the same as it has an explicit rule stating that the tech priest may not leave. And kudos to the codex writter a designers note stating that it counts as three seperate units (clearing up the battlefield role question/ vp question)
None of these are in the formation rules.
I think my gut says it must form unit means counts a single unit pre deployment and must deploy as a unit but that the IC rule permits it to subsequently leave especially as the above example requires a seperate rule to prevent it. I would therefore interpret each constituent part maintain its battlefield role/ vp and the dedicated transport to have appropriate role of all since its role is based on the unit it is formed from initially ( hq/elite hybrid) which occurs pretty deployment
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2017/02/09 20:24:02
Subject: Astropath- inquisitorial henchman warband formation
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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is there an Astropath in the digital Inquisition Codex, and did he have IC status before the Imperial Agents book came out? There they just had the Warband unit which looks like what they're trying to recreate as a formation in the Imperial Agents book. If it had not been an IC before and was stuck in the unit, that could be viewed as to their intent on how they want the Astropath treated with the formation.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2017/02/10 18:29:34
Subject: Re:Astropath- inquisitorial henchman warband formation
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Longtime Dakkanaut
Glasgow
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There was no astropath in the digital codex. It was a bop psychic model and not a character.
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