Close combat results and remove from play effects

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**JakeSiren**

Hey all,

I was wondering how a remove from play effect affects the close combat results.

Say for example I have an Iron Priest with a tempest hammer (helfrost) and they get charged by a MC and another unit. Let's say through some poor dice rolling and lucky saves the attacker doesn't cause any wounds. The Iron Priest hits the MC with the hammer, causes a wound, then the MC fails their test and is removed from play. Does the Iron Priest win combat by 1 or by the number of wounds the MC had?

**Martel732**

I think by the wounds removed.

**MechaEmperor7000**

Second Paragraph in the "Determine Assault Results" section in the rulebook specifically says that "only the Wounds actually suffered by enemy models count (including all of the Wounds lost by models that have suffered Instant Death)" so Martel is right.

**Elric Greywolf**

Wait though. If "removed from play" means that the model has suffered wounds, then FnP and saves are allowed against "removed from play" effects. So if my Daemon Prince Perils, rolls a 1, and fails his Ld, then he would be allowed his his 4+ FnP against all four wounds suffered. And if he makes any one of any of those rolls, he is not removed from play, but merely remains with however many wounds he didn't feel.

That doesn't sound quite right.

**MechaEmperor7000**

As far as Instant Death is concerned, it only counts as multiple wounds for the purposes of combat resolution; you don't take 3-4 invulnerable saves for every Instant Death hit you get, you only take one.

**Elric Greywolf**

But the OP isn't talking about Instant Death, that's quite obvious how it works. We're talking about "removed from play" which is a different mechanic.

**Mr. Shine**

Instant Death also outright states the affected model's Wounds are reduced to 0, so I think it's plain it should affect determining assault results even without the explicit reminder therein.

RAW removed from play effects don't interact with determining assault results. HIWPI though would be to consider them as having reduced the model's Wounds to 0, though.

**avaxos**

BRB p 13 states that models that are removed from play count as regular casualties, so I believe that if that were to happen mid combat, the rules for saving against the remove from play effect would be described in the effect itself (toughness test from black mace, leadership from perils, etc...) clearly, but model would count as having lost all remaining wounds and adding them to the assault result. However, in the case of perils, since it didn't happen in the assault phase, it wouldn't count towards combat resolution.

**Charistoph**

avaxos wrote:
BRB p 13 states that models that are removed from play count as regular casualties, so I believe that if that were to happen mid combat, the rules for saving against the remove from play effect would be described in the effect itself (toughness test from black mace, leadership from perils, etc...) clearly, but model would count as having lost all remaining wounds and adding them to the assault result. However, in the case of perils, since it didn't happen in the assault phase, it wouldn't count towards combat resolution.

Remove From Play largely depends on what causes it. In most cases they are not made on a Wound, they skip the entire Wounding premise and go right to taking the model off the board. In these cases there are no Wounds for Casualty Results any more than there are Wounds for FNP/Reanimation Protocols to be processed.

Still that is a problem when they should be considered for Combat Results, for consistency, if nothing else. To bad it isn't RAW, still some TOs may choose otherwise.