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Hi guys,

I had a few interesting rules issues come up as I was thinking through the implications of Soulburst.

Obviously not many will have the actually hardcopy rules infront of them, but here's somethings I wanted opinions on.

On using PFD to assault - so you can charge out of phase by triggering it, but not actually strike blows until the assault phase, when the fight sub-phase occurs?

In my turn, I declare a regular charge and destroy the unit I charged. I choose to make a soulburst immediately upon it's death. Do I make a consolidation move? Or is soulburst first because it's immediate?

I successfully make the charge. Do we resolve this combat now, given it's still the assault phase (and fight sub phase)?

Another user posted that a unit that soulbursts before it's regular shooting attack, cannot use it's regular shooting attack (because it has already shot), is this correct?

For soulburst to trigger, the final model in whatever unit must be within 7'', correct? As this is where the unit is 'destroyed'?

When referring to "once per turn" this means player turn, correct? I can soulburst once in my turn, and once in my opponents turn, with each unit?

Same goes for the Yncarne's deep striking ability. I may place it during my opponents turn, but I get to charge in my subsequent turn?

The Yncarne's ability to be placed where a unit was destroyed can be used at any time during the game. Including when it is locked in combat?

The Visarch can choose to have Yvraine auto-pass LOS, to pass a wound to him. Can I choose to still roll the LOS, and pass to the closest model as usual?

The lost shroud is an item that removes Independent Character. If I give it to a farseer in a seer council, who HAS TO join that unit, and cannot leave…it that fine?

For using SfD to assault:
I believe you are correct in that if you use it to assault, you wait unit the actual Assault phase to resolve attack, and you only count as charging if it was done just prior to either Assault phase.
If, however, it is done after the assault phase and we resolve the combat in the next turn, you no longer count as assaulting in that turn. This is very important for Harlies HoW, Shining spears, etc.

If you use SfD in the Assault phase, you must be aware or the Initiative step and ongoing combats. If you charge a new unit that creates a new combat, you resolve combat as normal. If you assault a unit that is in an existing combat in which blows are being struck already, you continue with the current Init step.
So if your Harlies charge in and I10-I5 have already been resolved in that combat, then the Harlies do Not get to attack unit next turn (thus losing any charge bonuses)

Interestingly, you could use this to avoid getting attacked on units that do not have Grenades.
For example: Have a unit of Shining Spears within charge range of a unit they want to assault that is in cover. Assault that unit, not with the spears, but with a cheap suicide unit (like a Beastmaster or Chimera). The enemy will attack and kill that unit, triggering Soulburst for the Spears, who charge in and cannot be attacked because they enemy unit has already attacked.
Since you are I1 from charging through cover, and I1 has yet to be resolved in that combat, Bingo, you get to attack without being attacked, Note that this only works if I1 has yet to be resolved.

-

Here are my thoughts, in Orange next to yours:

Belly wrote:Hi guys,

I had a few interesting rules issues come up as I was thinking through the implications of Soulburst.

Obviously not many will have the actually hardcopy rules infront of them, but here's somethings I wanted opinions on.

On using PFD to assault - so you can charge out of phase by triggering it, but not actually strike blows until the assault phase, when the fight sub-phase occurs? [I assume you mean using a Soulburst action from the SfD rule to charge] Yes to your question, assuming you are using the Soulburst action in any phase that is NOT the fight sub-phase. For example in the shooting phase, or even in the charge sub-phase, due to overwatch deaths for example (rare to kill a whole unit here of course). The actual combat will resolve during that turn's fight sub-phase as normal.

In my turn, I declare a regular charge and destroy the unit I charged. I choose to make a soulburst immediately upon it's death. Do I make a consolidation move? Or is soulburst first because it's immediate? Well, can you even do this? The Soulburst rule specifically says you cannot choose a unit that is locked in combat to make a Soulburst action. If your unit has the SfD rule and kills a unit in combat (which was obviously within 7"), are you still locked in combat at the time Soulburst action is triggered?

I successfully make the charge. Do we resolve this combat now, given it's still the assault phase (and fight sub phase)? You resolve the combat in the fight sub-phase as normal. This means if you Soulburst DURING the fight sub-phase (say to bring a unit that isn't in combat into a combat), you do not start a new combat from i10, you continue the previous combat from the end of the last initiative step. This is stated in the Soulburst rule. If you Soulburst at any other time, you resolve the combat in the fight sub-phase of that turn, as you would any other time.

Another user posted that a unit that soulbursts before it's regular shooting attack, cannot use it's regular shooting attack (because it has already shot), is this correct? This needs to be FAQ'd for clarity. Until that time, I'm leaning towards agreeing with that other user. In the rules, you can shoot once in your shooting phase. Therefore if you soulburst first, then you get to your normal shooting phase attack, you shouldn't be able to shoot as the rules say you can only do so once per turn, and you've done so already. However, if you Soulburst second, after the normal shooting attack, Soulburst implcitly states you CAN do that even if you have before that turn.

For soulburst to trigger, the final model in whatever unit must be within 7'', correct? As this is where the unit is 'destroyed'? Yes, the last model to have a wound allocated to it and removed would be the trigger for destroyed in this case.

When referring to "once per turn" this means player turn, correct? I can soulburst once in my turn, and once in my opponents turn, with each unit? The BRB says that anytime "turn" is mentioned, it is the player turn, unless "game turn" is specifically mentioned. So I'll go with yes to your question, making this rule all the more powerful.

Same goes for the Yncarne's deep striking ability. I may place it during my opponents turn, but I get to charge in my subsequent turn? As I read this, the Yncarne does have the deep strike ability, which it can use just like any other unit with deep strike. But, the Inevitable Death rule it has seems to say that it can also come onto the battlefield without deep striking, technically - you just place it in line with the wording of the rule (scatter is not mentioned, which you would normally do if deep striking). It also explicity mentions it cannot charge that [player] turn if it does so which, if it was deep striking, it couldn't anyway. So I think bringing the Yncarne out of reserve and into play via the Inevitable Death rule, or moving it from one place on the board to another using this same rule, is not actually deep striking. To fully answer you question, see above regarding player and game turns.

The Yncarne's ability to be placed where a unit was destroyed can be used at any time during the game. Including when it is locked in combat? Normally I'd say no, you can't move you're locked in combat. But looking at the Yncarne's special rule Inevitable Death, the qualifier for this action is "each time a unit has been slain, friend or foe, you may immediately PLACE the Yncarne (etc etc)". Firstly, placing a model is not a move, it is a contravening special rule that can happen at any phase. Secondly, it can happen at any phase in the opponent's turn too, further implied by the "friend or foe" wording. You cannot normally make a move in the opponent's turn either. I'm going with yes to this question.

The Visarch can choose to have Yvraine auto-pass LOS, to pass a wound to him. Can I choose to still roll the LOS, and pass to the closest model as usual? Sure why not - we're assuming here that Yvraine is at the the front of the shooting attacks coming in (or is the closest in combat). Therefore, all wounds coming in from this wound pool must now be allocated to Yvraine until there are no more wounds left, or Yvraine is dead. Nothing says you can't take LoS rolls as normal, the wording says "you can choose". It then says "you must" choose the Visarch as the recipient of these though, that's not a choice for those wounds auto LoS'd.

The lost shroud is an item that removes Independent Character. If I give it to a farseer in a seer council, who HAS TO join that unit, and cannot leave…it that fine? Yes, you have no choice in the matter in that formation.