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So having had a flick through the book, I’ve noticed a weird bit of wording.

For the Reborn Warhost, it states in the section, where available units are specified – that “One of the following” may be taken.

Now, does this essentially mean that no duplicates may be taken as part of the Warhost? So only a single unit of Jetbikes taken from the troop slot, and no duplicates of formations?

Been discussed before it seems it means one unit per slot, based on similar wording from fall of Cadia Detachment with max of 4 HQ of 3 different choices.

At least Troop wise, Formation it's a bit more shady due how those works.

Not quite clear on what you're saying.

Can I take two Kabalite units as my two troops choices?

Logically, "one of the following" means "each of the following datasheets represents one choice for the respective battlefield role".

The detachment requires multiple units from differnt battlefield roles, so reading "one of the following" as "only one of the following" would make it impossible to fulfill the mandatory selections.

The text "one of the following precedes the list of datasheets for the slot" and is as such applicable to the whole list. That is why I think it cannot be read as "up to one of each of the following".

So my answer is: yes, you can take two units of kabalites.

Yes you can take more than 1 of each option.

The premise is that when you have to select a Troop choice you may take one of the following. This is to stop the effect that certain models may make an elite a troop choice. An example of this is with the Marine codex that states if a Captain is on a bike then bikes can become troops. You wouldn´t be able to take bikes as troops as they are not "one of the following" when it comes to build your list.

I am not sure if any of the eldar codex had this option but was the best example that I knew of.

 rawne2510 wrote:
Yes you can take more than 1 of each option.

The premise is that when you have to select a Troop choice you may take one of the following. This is to stop the effect that certain models may make an elite a troop choice. An example of this is with the Marine codex that states if a Captain is on a bike then bikes can become troops. You wouldn´t be able to take bikes as troops as they are not "one of the following" when it comes to build your list.

I am not sure if any of the eldar codex had this option but was the best example that I knew of.

No, this is entirely incorrect. You can definitely do that by the wording of all applicable rules.

This is to stop people saying "I will take a squadron of vindicators for my 1 heavy slot because it just says Vindicators and doesnt specify how many"

So are you saying you can only take 1 tactical marine?

 rawne2510 wrote:
So are you saying you can only take 1 tactical marine?

the list contains only the names of datasheets without any special permission to reduce minimum unit size. so no, you cannot take a single model from an SM tac squad.

No but to the same extent I can purchase 2 additional vindicators for a squadron and not be restricted to just 1 as @Silentz seemed to imply.

 rawne2510 wrote:
The premise is that when you have to select a Troop choice you may take one of the following. This is to stop the effect that certain models may make an elite a troop choice. An example of this is with the Marine codex that states if a Captain is on a bike then bikes can become troops. You wouldn´t be able to take bikes as troops as they are not "one of the following" when it comes to build your list.

This is incorrect, at least so far as Castellans of the Imperium is concerned.

'Castellans of the Imperium Army List' tells us:

"The Castellans of the Imperium Army List divides the units available into several categories, according to their Battlefield Role."

This is no different to what the various codices do with the army lists they present. Additionally, we're told they are available choices and are divided according to their Battlefield Role, but it does not restrict them to being used in only that Battlefield Role.

Even further, 'Castellans of the Imperium Army List' also explicitly states:

"You must use the profiles, points costs, equipment options, special rules and any Dedicated Transports available to each unit as described on their datasheet."

To deny Space Marine Bike Squads their 'Mounted Assault' special rule would be like trying to deny a Tactical Squad its ability to select a Rhino as a Dedicated Transport because a Rhino is not on the list of Troops choices.

Plainly that is wrong.

If that is your opinion.

More importantly it's what the rules plainly say.

But no where in the current codices does it tell you which units you may choose to fill the troop choice (castelleans provides a specific choice for each battlefield role). The codex only gives you battlefield roles in their data-slate which some can be changed because of specific rules.

My opinion from these facts is that the mounted assault rule would stop bikes being selected if they must become troop choices as they are not a stated option within the troop battlefield role.

 rawne2510 wrote:
But no where in the current codices does it tell you which units you may choose to fill the troop choice (castelleans provides a specific choice for each battlefield role). The codex only gives you battlefield roles in their data-slate which some can be changed because of specific rules.

By this logic, Mounted Assault doesn't work for CADs either.

The difference with Castellans, Reborn etc is that they draw from multiple codices so the book has to state specifically which units can be chosen.

For castellans, bikes are a fast attack choice. They become troops as per the standard rules.

On the original topic, I think the "choose one" wording is confusing but it definitely does not mean you cannot duplicate units as long as you are selecting 1 per allowed FOC slot.

 rawne2510 wrote:
But no where in the current codices does it tell you which units you may choose to fill the troop choice (castelleans provides a specific choice for each battlefield role). The codex only gives you battlefield roles in their data-slate which some can be changed because of specific rules.

My opinion from these facts is that the mounted assault rule would stop bikes being selected if they must become troop choices as they are not a stated option within the troop battlefield role.

Could you point to where Castellans of the Imperium tells you that you must use the available units in only the Battlefield Role shown?

In the list of troop options does it allow you to take bikes with an asterix saying you must have HQ on bike to do this??

Or does it have an asterix on the FA bikes choice that says may be taken as troops if a HQ on bike is chosen??

These are the permissive rules that I would expect to see if bikes are allowed to be taken as troops. Is this allowed????


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Silentz wrote:

 rawne2510 wrote:
But no where in the current codices does it tell you which units you may choose to fill the troop choice (castelleans provides a specific choice for each battlefield role). The codex only gives you battlefield roles in their data-slate which some can be changed because of specific rules.

By this logic, Mounted Assault doesn't work for CADs either.

The difference with Castellans, Reborn etc is that they draw from multiple codices so the book has to state specifically which units can be chosen.

For castellans, bikes are a fast attack choice. They become troops as per the standard rules.

On the original topic, I think the "choose one" wording is confusing but it definitely does not mean you cannot duplicate units as long as you are selecting 1 per allowed FOC slot.

Incorrect there is no where in the codices does it state the specific units to be used as troops only that you need 2 troops (Any troops however you aquire them). The ability for a unit to change role I accept. The issue is Castellans specifically tells you which units fit in which role. There is no "unless" statement anywhere in the book. You need to provide me with rules that say you can not a rule that says you can´t. Nothing in Castellans tells me I can use bikes within the troops lists as it isn´t there.

 rawne2510 wrote:
In the list of troop options does it allow you to take bikes with an asterix saying you must have HQ on bike to do this??

Or does it have an asterix on the FA bikes choice that says may be taken as troops if a HQ on bike is chosen??

These are the permissive rules that I would expect to see if bikes are allowed to be taken as troops. Is this allowed????

The ability to select a bike squad as a Troops FOC is not a function of the detachment, it's an ability of the unit. It doesn't need that asterisk in the detachment notes... although it DOES ACTUALLY have it where It says in the detachment preamble that all of the unit's rules from its datasheet apply. Adding the asterisk would just be triplicating an existing rule.

 rawne2510 wrote:

Incorrect there is no where in the codices does it state the specific units to be used as troops only that you need 2 troops (Any troops however you aquire them). The ability for a unit to change role I accept. The issue is Castellans specifically tells you which units fit in which role. There is no "unless" statement anywhere in the book. You need to provide me with rules that say you can not a rule that says you can´t. Nothing in Castellans tells me I can use bikes within the troops lists as it isn´t there.

Done above. To repeat, the Castellans detachment specifically states that all rules from the unit's datasheet apply as standard.

If you're still not sure then try this process out...
How do you acquire your troops?

I suggest that you open the codex and look at the unit datsheets which are grouped by FOC slot. I can see there is a specified list of troops options.

For example in the SM codex, I can select from the following list of only 2 units and no others:
- Tac Squad
- Scout Squad

That's it. There are no other options. Those are the 2 units I am allowed to select - exactly the same as Castellans. The only difference is the layout - the Fall of Cadia book doesn't reprint every datasheet from every valid codex, it just lists them by FOC.

I take a bike squad in the fast attack slot.
I choose an HQ on a bike.

AT THIS POINT my Bike Squad becomes a Troops choice due to the rule "mounted assault" which is on the Bike Squad datasheet.

 rawne2510 wrote:
In the list of troop options does it allow you to take bikes with an asterix saying you must have HQ on bike to do this??

Or does it have an asterix on the FA bikes choice that says may be taken as troops if a HQ on bike is chosen??

These are the permissive rules that I would expect to see if bikes are allowed to be taken as troops. Is this allowed????

What happens when you want to take a Space Marines Combined Arms Detachment?

You look at the Combined Arms Detachment, and compare the Battlefield Role slots with your available units.

Your allowed Troops choices in a Space Marine Combined Arms Detachment are Tactical Squad, Scout Squad and Crusader Squad.

This is no different to the available units in the Castellans of the Imperium Detachment. The units listed are your available units, divided into categories according to their Battlefield Role. Just like any codex groups their datasheets.

whatever. Wait for an FAQ

I'll add my $0.02 worth based on RAI and fluff rather than RAW.

By the 'not being able to change roles' interpretation, you couldn't take Hekatrix Bloodbrides in a Reborn Warhost.

Yvraine is accompanied by a squad of Bloodbrides in the fluff. I know that Fluff =/= Rules but intent is pretty clear.

The FAQ pretty clearly established that when a detachment datasheet calls for warriors, you can still buy the Trueborn upgrade with no problem. I see no reason the logic wouldn't follow here as well.

 Jimsolo wrote:
The FAQ pretty clearly established that when a detachment datasheet calls for warriors, you can still buy the Trueborn upgrade with no problem. I see no reason the logic wouldn't follow here as well.

Exactly. The Reborn Host allows Kabalite Warriors & Wyches, ergo Trueborn & Bloodbrides can be taken as well. No additional FAQ is needed.