Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Hello!

After reading up a little I decided to try making a Black Legion force with the Traitor Legions supplement. It fulfills the Black Legion Warband and Black Legion spear tip requirements, giving the force a couple benefits. Here's what I came up with:

HQ:

- Chaos Lord on bike, MoN, Black Mace, Sigil of Corruption - 170 pts
- Sorcerer, Aura of Dark Glory, Psyker Lvl 3 - 125 pts

Troops:

- 5 chosen, 2 plasma guns, Rhino - 155 pts
- 5 chosen, 2 plasma guns, Rhino - 155 pts
- 3 terminators, reaper autocannon, MoN - 138 pts

Fast Attack:

- 3 Chaos Bikers, MoN, 2x meltagun - 108 pts

Heavy Support:

- 5 Havocs with 4 autocannons - 115 pts

Auxiliary:

- 1 Chaos Spawn with MoK - 32 pts

998 pts

Everyone gets Veterans of the Long War, I get to pick my boons from two (or both), Sorcerer rolls on Geomortis powers hoping for 4 and/or 2 (anything else is just an extra), hopefully making Havocs ignore cover in case I run into bike lists. The only iffy part are the termies, but I think I'd still want them over the possessed and the autocannon can be parked in some ruins/crater near an objective if enemy has lots of AP 2. Spawn is there because I have to pick auxiliary to get the bonuses.

Any suggestions?

So... should I assume that the list is fine?

Do you think you have enough bodies to sustain a whole game? By my count you have 26 models (24 once you take out the Rhinos). It also seems like you are heavily leaning towards anti-armor which, I haven't played beyond Dark Vengeance, but I wouldn't expect all that much at 1000 points.

Also, by running a Black Legion Warband you lose the CAD bonus of Objective Secured. Combined with MSU seems like it would leave you unable to push the enemy off objectives. Minimum Chosen squads seem awfully risky in a charge even against regular guardsmen or orks, although; I suppose you could put Dirge Casters on the Rhinos to try and help out with that.

But like I mentioned, I haven't actually played yet. So I don't know how valid my points are. It doesn't seem like anyone knows/wants how to help out Chaos Space Marine lists.

Hey; by no meant an expert when it comes to my traitorous brethren; but I have helped to build my brothers army to about 2000pts and play against them regularly enough, and have been present when he's fielded the force many times? just bear this in mind when taking my feedback into account?

for 1000pts; 26 is DANGEROUSLY FEW models on the tabletop. like; wow. Grey knights are feeling like a horde force at this point....

Biker lord and nurgle bikes are a tough cookie. very nice, I like it; but damn does that eat some points?

Now I know due to formation benefits you'll have hatred/preffered enemy all over the place to mitigate the gets hot on those plasmas, but that's a serious risk packing 60pts
worth of special weapons into what's essentially a 10 strong unit across 2 transports.

I like the Havocs with autocannons. nice unit, long range, reasonable rate of fire.

Terminators are okay. wouldn't put them in a fire support role sporting just that one autocannon tbf though. I'd lose the heavy and go after squads that you'll erase from the board with ease.

spawn is well.... the compulsory auxillary.

I'd lose the specialised infantry in favour of some extra marines to be honest; and I'd want an armoured threat of some sort but at 1000pts you can't have it all?

GamerGuy

Reinforcing some of the other points, this is a list of very elite units. This army would not stand up to a challenger who carries superior firepower.

My biggest concern is the Chosen. They are too few in number and don't have great saves. I would rather see them as basic CSMs without the extra plasma gun. One Plasma Gun per unit is probably enough in a 1000 point game, and that would allow you to add some more bodies.

My second concern is the Terminators. They don't have a lot of firepower, even with the reaper autocannon. You would do better exchanging them for a few squads of cultists.

My third concern is the HQ. It feels like you need the CL or the Sorcerer, but not both. Points would be better spent on another bike squad.

In terms of what I like - the Havocs are a great option, 4 autocannons are going to destroy some stuff. The bikers I like, the double melta is going to kill things. The spawn I like, and he could be a great parallel threat to the bikes.

Well, the list looks like that mostly because I wanted to try to take the warband and it requires various stuff. I'm facing stuff like bikes in my meta, so the geomortis sorcerer giving stuff like ignores cover to autocannons is a neat addition, but I need the lord to fill the HQ.

I could, actually, just give up on the BL warband formation and try a regular CAD at low points (then try it at bigger bracket), but I really wanted to see if it'd work. Plus I really dig the Chosen, but I guess they'd just not work fine at such low points.

What'd make for a fine CAD-based list then? I'm only starting with the faction, so it's not a matter of what I have already, just a couple DV chosen, terminator lord, winged DP and some 40 mixed weapon cultists along with 2 DV helbrutes, heldrake and one box with marines and rhino.

How powerful do you want your list? I've ran a black legion speartip and also ran chaos in general for a long while now, and there are a few key problems with the list.

- Too elitist, go up against any well made list and you will crumble even in a semi-competative setting.
-Chosen are a waste of points, no seriously they are terrible, take normal marines unless your taking alpha legion.
-Terminators arent geared for what thet are best at. (See below)

The biggest problem with this list is its not making use of the benifits you get! Why take black legion when the same list in alpha legion make it much better. Alpha striking (DS turn 1) are one of the best rules in the game, if you want a solid BL list you need to seriously consider raptor talon.

An optimal list in this case would be

Chaos Lord
2 x 5 CSM (maybe in rhino?)
1 x 3 terminators with combi melta
3x Chaos Bikers
5 havoks with autocannons

Aux
Chaos lord with jump pack
5 raptors with 2 melta
5 raptors with 2 melta
5 raptors with 2 flamers

This leaves 100 or so points for extra upgrades, 100 points! And we are looking at double the models on the table, most arriving and charging from turn 1 DS, and being considerably more threaterning.

Up to you tho, and what you prefer to run. Just remember have fun. Also if you love chosen you should consider alpha legion!

That's actually nice, especially that I adore Raptors in general. As for the list - I hoped for maximum competitiveness - I have orks for fun play and I've heard that CSM finally became useful on their own, so I wanted to give them a try.

In current meta I'm likely to run into trukk-mounted orks with either a mega-armoured warboss or bike warboss or DKoK triple Medusa (S10 AP2 large blast) guardsman spam with a little side of loyalist SM.

 Klerych wrote:
That's actually nice, especially that I adore Raptors in general. As for the list - I hoped for maximum competitiveness - I have orks for fun play and I've heard that CSM finally became useful on their own, so I wanted to give them a try.

In current meta I'm likely to run into trukk-mounted orks with either a mega-armoured warboss or bike warboss or DKoK triple Medusa (S10 AP2 large blast) guardsman spam with a little side of loyalist SM.

The ork rule of boyz before toyz still applies even to CSM, I hope your opponent is pleasantly surprised when his knight is blown off table turn 1 by 3 or 4 terminators with combi melta and 2 units of raptors with melta. Melta still maintains effectivness even against ordinary units or monsterous creatures due to its high strength. Being able to also charge from deepstrike is also rather useful, making sure armies like tau and eldar scatterbikes dont even get 1 turn of shooting before you destroy them.