Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Question:
So, let's say that Celestine and her Geminae are in combat with an Imperial Knight. And, for the sake of argument, that Knight stomps on Celestine and rolls a '6', but that template does not hit the Geminae Superior attached to Celestine.

What happens? You're supposed to allocate wounds to the Geminae before you put them on Celestine, but this is a rare (If not unique) instance where models are removed without taking wounds - Every other instance I can think of requires the model to make some test after taking a wound, they don't just get removed outright.

So Celestine dies, but her Geminae are still alive. That's not the worst thing in the world... Unless those Geminae then fail a Leadership check and are forced to run away. So you've got the Geminae some 12-15" away from Celestine, and then Celestine passes her Leadership check and gets back up.



Is that right? Do they just have to move back into coherency, or am I doing something wrong?


This came up in a game, pretty much exactly as described. We just left the Geminae on a vigil over Celestine's corpse until my turn rolled back around, but there's probably a better solution somewhere.

So you CAN LoS! stomps, even the 6 result. I'd say try the LoS! and if that fails, still resolve against a Geminae. You're right that no wounds are suffered, but it seems pretty obvious that, according to Celestine's rules, Geminae should never be on the table if Celestine is on the table.

If you'd want to go straight RAW, then the Gems could still move away, but as soon as Celestine comes back they're a single unit not in coherency, so they'd have to get into coherency. And if the Gems are locked in combat at that time, Celestine is gonna have a lot of phases of piling in 6" to try and get to the other side of the board!

 Elric Greywolf wrote:
So you CAN LoS! stomps, even the 6 result. I'd say try the LoS! and if that fails, still resolve against a Geminae. You're right that no wounds are suffered, but it seems pretty obvious that, according to Celestine's rules, Geminae should never be on the table if Celestine is on the table.

If you'd want to go straight RAW, then the Gems could still move away, but as soon as Celestine comes back they're a single unit not in coherency, so they'd have to get into coherency. And if the Gems are locked in combat at that time, Celestine is gonna have a lot of phases of piling in 6" to try and get to the other side of the board!

From the FAQ:
Q: Can ‘Look Out, Sir’ attempts be made against
Stomp attacks?
A: Yes, unless an Overrun result is rolled.

You can't Look Out, Sir against an Overrun result.

You cannot LOS a 6 on the stomp chart. It flatout removes any model underneath.

If you're playing ITC rules, you can LOS it. But otherwise, no.

But Celestines rule for allocating wounds is not a LoS is it?

She also has eternal warrior so that means she just takes d3 wounds instead no?

No the Stomp removes her. eternal warrior doesn´t effect the stomp. My understanding of her coming back is it was near where she died. Therefore she would just be right back into combat. or her geminae are also removed automatically and one comes back next turn with her.

The bigger question is does she get back up from a remove from play stomp. Other units that used to get back up such as necrons didn´t get that option when a 6 occured.

Overrun on the stomp table (6 results) is one of the few remaining rules that say "Models under the template are removed from play..." There is no wound generator which by passes saves or LoS. There used to be more remove from play weapons in the game. SAG rolling double 6's was remove from play.

Now ITC, has FAQ'ed players to have the ability to LoS the 6 results for your characters. So you can do if you and your opponent have agreed to use that rule or ITC's rules.

Helfrost is remove from play. I believe Black mace may also be remove from play.

twas times like these the old vortex rule was just beastly...... auto remove from play, no anything just pack em away


but in this respect celestine would be removed, her gemini would oddly be on the table (if they weren't stomped) and she would do her divine intervention.


I would say they would have to move to each other to re form coherency.


This would be the most banana's thing to happen, but she would be removed, do her Divine intervention, then re cohension back with the gemini

Well, it all comes down to the wording on "overrun"

Does it say "The Model Suffers"
If so you can take it on the Geminae (due to RAW)
If its "The model is Slain" then you cant
If its "Removed From Play" then Celestine cant even get back up!

 commander dante wrote:

If its "Removed From Play" then Celestine cant even get back up!

... Why?

Waaaghpower wrote:

 commander dante wrote:

If its "Removed From Play" then Celestine cant even get back up!

... Why?

Because some people still believe that "removed from play" is not "removed as casualty", so if you hav an effect that work when you're "removed as casualty" (like Celestine resurection), it doesn't work when you're "removed from play".
If it happens, a good old RTFM solve the issue =)

 RabbitMaster wrote:
Because some people still believe that "removed from play" is not "removed as casualty", so if you hav an effect that work when you're "removed as casualty" (like Celestine resurection), it doesn't work when you're "removed from play".
If it happens, a good old RTFM solve the issue =)

I just did, and it makes no mention of that. Care to clarify?

Models that are ‘removed from play’ by special rules or attacks are also considered to
have been removed as casualties, as far as the game rules are concerned.

It5's on page 13 of the rulebook, if you wanted to look there yourself.