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If the codex of your primary army was being updated, what changes would you make to improve the codex as a whole - not necessarily making the army more competitive, but more representative of their character? Internal/external balance is great and all, but how would you go about it?

e.g. For orks:
- add more melee weapon options - there's only so much that choppa/big choppa/klaw/saw can cover. What about big blunt objects? crazy mek doodads with a table to roll on to see what the the weapon actually does? etc.
- make the random element of the book less self-destructive and balanced more towards "anything can happen" - I've heard that older editions did this well?
- Make the g/morkanaughts superheavy - look at the size of them for 's sake!
- bring back the kustom stompa as a lord of war. The one thing the ork army should not be is monotonous
- give ork walkers a bonus to compensate for their cruddy initiative (more attacks? dunno tbh)
- give nobz eavy armour base
- give the special characters more, well, character. not just insert a nob boss with special HoW/plasma weapon and 3+ armour
- change the mob rule to reward mob gameplay? maybe make the Ld of a unit equal to the number of ork models within 12", with >10 = fearless? Haven't given it much thought tbh

I'm interested to see how people would go about molding the current codices to better represent the feel of their army

Orks,
- Remove all formations.
- Include IA8 in the codex.
- Half the point cost of anything in the codex.

Inq.
- Cheaper transports and wargear.

Its simple but it works.

 oldzoggy wrote:
Orks,
- Remove all formations.
- Include IA8 in the codex.
- Half the point cost of anything in the codex.

Inq.
- Cheaper transports and wargear.

Its simple but it works.

3 point Orks? Seems a bit much?

BA become vanilla marines.

PUT ALL THE UPDATES/SUPPLEMENTS INTO ONE SODDING BOOK!

 Sgt_Smudge wrote:

3 point Orks? Seems a bit much?

3 point orks seems fair in a meta where 3 point space marines are the norm.

 oldzoggy wrote:

 Sgt_Smudge wrote:

3 point Orks? Seems a bit much?

3 point orks seems fair in a meta where 3 point space marines are the norm.

You wot? (again)

Well, he's probably talking about the Gladius, which gets you free Rhinos. In a Min Squad of Tacs, that's 105 points for 70 points, or 33% discount. Applying that to the Marine, and it costs 9.33 points per Space Marine.

In other words, he's exaggerating his butt off.

modern razorback spam lists pay 55 points for their razorbacks and get 5 marines for 15 points.

The perfect update to Dark Eldar would be to revert to the Old Dark Eldar codex in almost every way apart from keeping the current Scourges and Reavers. Keep formations. Don't care about relics, old artifacts of pain were just as good (shattershard ftw).

I just want Incubi to have grenades (Phantasm grende launcher), Ravagers to be worth a dam, Beastpacks to be worth a dam, Our Dark Kin aristocracy back (Duke, Baron and Lady) and goddamit I want Venom Blades. The new codex sucked all the life outta my book.

 oldzoggy wrote:
modern razorback spam lists pay 55 points for their razorbacks and get 5 marines for 15 points.

And this is proof of why like 90% of you should not be posting in the Proposed Rules Forum. I don't think I'm the single greatest person ever but I'm sure as hell better than most of you.

 oldzoggy wrote:
modern razorback spam lists pay 55 points for their razorbacks and get 5 marines for 15 points.

How? (Sorry, not a lot of SM players in our area)


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

 oldzoggy wrote:
modern razorback spam lists pay 55 points for their razorbacks and get 5 marines for 15 points.

And this is proof of why like 90% of you should not be posting in the Proposed Rules Forum. I don't think I'm the single greatest person ever but I'm sure as hell better than most of you.

Also, where did that come from? He was a little salty that SM can spam cheap troops better than Orks and you respond with "I'm sure as hell better than most of you"?

 mrhappyface wrote:

 oldzoggy wrote:
modern razorback spam lists pay 55 points for their razorbacks and get 5 marines for 15 points.

How? (Sorry, not a lot of SM players in our area)

Space marines use the fuffly gladius strike force detachment. It give them free transport and guess what. 3 pts space marines are really good as in cut thoat tournament lv good ; )
Just look at this list of winning tournament lists, nearly all of the SM players field that lists -> http://bloodofkittens.com/7th-edition-army-list-compendium/

 mrhappyface wrote:

 oldzoggy wrote:
modern razorback spam lists pay 55 points for their razorbacks and get 5 marines for 15 points.

How? (Sorry, not a lot of SM players in our area)


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

 oldzoggy wrote:
modern razorback spam lists pay 55 points for their razorbacks and get 5 marines for 15 points.

And this is proof of why like 90% of you should not be posting in the Proposed Rules Forum. I don't think I'm the single greatest person ever but I'm sure as hell better than most of you.

Also, where did that come from? He was a little salty that SM can spam cheap troops better than Orks and you respond with "I'm sure as hell better than most of you"?

Maybe because nobody should be paying 15 points for a Tactical Marine? The real Salt was from them not me

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

Maybe because nobody should be paying 15 points for a Tactical Marine? The real Salt was from them not me

I don't know if it's because it's late but I can't understand you properly.

Did you mean 15pts for a tactical squad?
And when you say "salt was from them" is "them" Zoggy or the SM players?

Sorry if I am being a dipstick.

One book for my Admech, which includes the option for some type of transport vehicle. Preferably an assault vehicle.

Tau Empire:
A few units increase in points and/or have their save reduced to 3+ (Stormsurge/Piranha and Riptides, respectively).
Ion Accelerator reduced in range to 48".
Ghostkeel point cost increased by 5 points.
Chapter Tactics equivalents are added for each of the Tau septs (potentially replacing Supporting Fire or reducing its baseline effectiveness, to keep things balanced)
Hammerhead Railguns are made a bit more effective (D is too much, 10/1 is too little - Ordnance or Tankhunter and Monster Hunter, maybe?)
Broadside Heavy Rail Rifle is made Rapid Fire instead of Heavy, and reduced to 48" range (the old railguns were replaced because they were "too clunky" according to the codex, so the new weakshit HRR ought to demonstrate that). All broadsides increase in cost by 5 points.
Coldstars are made T5, so they don't get Instagibbed by a failed grounding check when they fly. Possibly increase in cost to compensate.
Devilfish/Hammerheads/Skyrays reduced in cost slightly (5-10 points).
Vehicle-mounted SMS cost increased in comparison to the BC (5 points).
Vehicle Multi-tracker and Target Lock (from past editions) returns at 10/5 points, allowing firing-as-if-Fast and splitting fire respectively.
Stealth Suits reduced in cost by 5 points each.
Drone point costs in Drone Squadrons reduced by 2 points.
Ghostkeels, Riptides, and Stormsurges gain the "Mecha" special rule: Poison and Fleshbane only wound on 6+, while Haywire wounds on 2+ and gains Rending, and Tank Hunter, Armorbane, and Melta at half range re-roll to-wound.
Give Kroot S4 again.
Give Vespid an alternative firing mode - something like 3/6 Template - or Rending (if they use their claws for mining through rocks/asteroids, as was implied in older codexes, they really ought to have rending in CC).

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

 mrhappyface wrote:

 oldzoggy wrote:
modern razorback spam lists pay 55 points for their razorbacks and get 5 marines for 15 points.

How? (Sorry, not a lot of SM players in our area)


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

 oldzoggy wrote:
modern razorback spam lists pay 55 points for their razorbacks and get 5 marines for 15 points.

And this is proof of why like 90% of you should not be posting in the Proposed Rules Forum. I don't think I'm the single greatest person ever but I'm sure as hell better than most of you.

Also, where did that come from? He was a little salty that SM can spam cheap troops better than Orks and you respond with "I'm sure as hell better than most of you"?

Maybe because nobody should be paying 15 points for a Tactical Marine? The real Salt was from them not me

You seem to be confused, here, I'll highlight the salt so you don't miss it. It was most definitely from you.

3pt Marines is stupid, but I agree 15pt Marines aren't great either. TBH I've given up with balance in 40K, GW obviously don't give a gak with all the stuff they come out with. 40K needs an overhaul, and I smell an End Times in the air.

Martel732 wrote:
BA become vanilla marines.

I would be fine with that as long as their units stay intact. Basically, combine them the way Black Templars did.

Don't even care anymore.

Martel732 wrote:
Don't even care anymore.

It isn't like it would be hard. Make Descent Of Angels the first part of the Chapter Tactic and then add the +1S/I as the second part.

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

Martel732 wrote:
Don't even care anymore.

It isn't like it would be hard. Make Descent Of Angels the first part of the Chapter Tactic and then add the +1S/I as the second part.

Yup. Make all non-Land Raider tanks Fast as part of Chapter Tactics as well.

 ALEXisAWESOME wrote:
The perfect update to Dark Eldar would be to revert to the Old Dark Eldar codex in almost every way apart from keeping the current Scourges and Reavers. Keep formations. Don't care about relics, old artifacts of pain were just as good (shattershard ftw).

I just want Incubi to have grenades (Phantasm grenade launcher), Ravagers to be worth a dam, Beast Packs to be worth a dam, Our Dark Kin aristocracy back (Duke, Baron and Lady) and goddammit I want Venom Blades. The new codex sucked all the life outta my book.

I'd also keep the PFP and combat drug changes from the more recent codex and the changes to Grotesques, and the Talos/Cronos squadrons (though previous costs and weapon stats for both)

Thousand Sons:
Mark of Tzeentch changes all aspiring champions into Aspiring Sorcerers at Level 1 in addition to what it does now so the Mark has some functional use outside of characters and units with a pre-existing invulnerable save.

Rubric Marines have the aspiring sorcerer changed to level 2 to allow for better spell options and for them to be 3 points cheaper per model and have the same gear options as standard marines. No more full units of flamers. Just a special and access to heavy at 10 would be great.

Grey Knights: Bring back multiple Attacks per model and psychic powers that do something. Possibly a ranged weapon that can do something to tanks, and give the Troops units two heavy weapons per five.

Orks:

Good god, please give us an invuln. in both shooting and close combat again. For a race so focused on krumpin in melee, we have little to no protection, either make cybork bodies a 5+ invuln. again or make it give +1 to existing FNP rolls (in the case of no FNP, it just gives a 6+ FNP save). Then give us a zzap field or something that is a 4+ or 5+ invuln that gives off an automatic S5 AP- hit every time against an enemy in base contact when you roll a 6 to save.

Make the KFF more useful by letting it create a bubble out of vehicles again AND actually protect the guys inside a transport from wounds caused by No Escape!. If not make the KFF a 12" bubble because being on a per model basis rather than unit makes it extremely hard for coverage outside of taking a Morkanaut.

Nobz become Ld8 (never understood why they don't have higher leadership than boyz) and T5 base with 'eavy armour. They pay 15 points per bike like normal people rather than

Boyz become S4 base. They could lose furious charge if necessary in return, I would prefer the consistency of having S4 all the time.

More kinds of CC weapons, like 'Uge Ammers, updates to big choppas like making them AP4 and rending by default, making burnas more accessible to units like Ork boyz or Stormboyz.

Gitfindas give a flat +1BS bonus rather than only giving it when you're staying still. Make it an accessible upgrade option to Lootas and vehicles.

Flash Gitz gain a 4+ armour save base like they should and have options to upgrade their guns like before. Blastier makes them APD3 instead but gain Gets Hot! Shootier gives them +1S on their guns. More Dakka! gives them an extra shot. They are treated as always having a character for the case of Mob Rule so that those bosspoles on each model actually do something.

Mob Rule table is reversed, and more importantly INCLUDES rolling for fear tests. So a 6 is auto-pass (with the slight change that this includes during the shooting phase rather than just in CC), 4-5 is breaking heads and 1-3 is squabble. The hits are resolved at D3 S4 AP- hits for results of breaking heads and squabble. Squabble is changed so that it happens as long as there are 5 models and lower. More importantly, this makes WAAAGH! Ghazghkull's +2 modifier actually make sense (since now you auto-pass on a 4+ for Mob Rule) and it does something for trukk boyz units.

Ramshackle rule applied to all Ork vehicles. It gives a 4+ save to reduce penetrating hits to glances, and a 4+ save to reduce glancing hits into nothing.

Gorka/Morkanauts become SHW, with the Morkanaut's KMK getting large blast and the Gorkanauts Deffstorm Megashoota becoming twin-linked and gaining rending.

Zagstruk and Badrukk go back in their respective fast attack and heavy support slots and become slotless if either a unit of stormboyz or flash gitz are taken as a choice respectively. Zagstruk gets at initiative power klaws on the charge back (as well as allowing his unit to assault from deep strike, why do space marines get it when we had it first?) and his Ld9 + Violent Disciplinarian rule again while giving his accompanying unit of stormboyz move through cover. Badrukk gets a fancy master-crafted power sword and gives his accompanying unit of Flash Gitz preferred enemy.

Make more tiered units of ork oddboyz.

Painboyz become like Meks and gain boy stats (and go to 30 points) but otherwise have the urty syringe and dok's tools and you may take them for every Ork HQ you take.

Weirdboyz have the same thing, ork boy stats, 25 point cost with their weapon and ML1. They get a built in 5+ invuln. with WAAAGH! field.

Then have upper tier versions of these that actually take up an HQ slot, called Painbosses and Weirdbosses (who can go up to ML3). They have Ld8 and have proper Nob stats (which in this case, remember, have T5) with access to wargear and relics.

Finally, balance out the randomness of Ork shooting to give us either more ways to provide consistency at cost or make it so that our random bad results are balanced out by significantly good results rather than the "meh" we get now.

Necrons

Ctan roll 2D6 and pick when choosing their powers, still keeping their current format of choosing squad first then power (it would be stupid broken if it was the other way around, 2d6 at least gives some reliability while retaining the randomness).

Points cost for formations. (less of specific codex thing, more of a general 40k thing)

Higher WS on the D/Lord (having a lower WS than a O/Lord seems odd and ill fitting)

Move flayed ones to infantry.

Give an upgrade option to any unit that gives them the flayer virus, reducing the BS but increasing their WS.

Allow anyone to embark on a Ghost Ark, keep its capacity at 10 and the rules for replenishing warriors.

Plastic models.

* Legion rules in the codex
* All Word Bearers units re-roll failed Morale tests.
* All Chaos Icons also work as locator beacons and icon bearers can make Look out, sir rolls.
* Possessed have two close combat weapons, scouts and Toughness 5 base.
* All Dark Apostle's abilities have 12" range (beseech the Dark Gods, demagogue, WB Zealot bubble).
* Defiler is T6 W6 Sv3+/5++ GMC.
* Units that can be taken as troops due to Legion rules can replace CSM squads in Chaos Warband / BL Warband.
* Warpsmith price reduction to 90 pts, can repair Defiler restoring a wound instead of hull point.

Something that can go toe to toe with a gargantuan. Either a big daemon or some protection from having 300+ point models just being stomped away.
Less random stuff would be nice too.